I NEVER leveled off of running and jumping in any past TES games. Don't use it as a major skill if you don't want a character that runs and jumps alot. If you run and jump alot, and it's a major skill, you are going to level. Whats the problem?

Implementing it the way I proposed would not bar you from sprinting. You would be able to run, sprint, and jump exactly as you can currently in the game. If you wanted to be able to run, jump, and sprint faster than you can currently, then invest perks in athletics so that you could do so. If you then complained about athletics leveling you up, why did you invest the points in the first place? Implementing it the way I suggested would only provide you the option of being able to move faster and jump higher than you can currently, and - in the way I suggested - they would not force you to level up those skills unless you specifically choose to by investing a perk in the tree.

And if you want to move faster, but don't want to level up athletics? Tough. What if I want to get better at picking locks, or get better prices from traders, but I don't want to level them up? There's a benefit and a consequence to leveling up any non combat skill; the difference in this case is that athletics would actually have a practical application in combat, as well. There could be perks to increase your defense when wearing no armor, perks to increase hand-to-hand damage, perks to add a dodge move, increased movement speed and jump height could help you escape sticky situations.


Everything you said. Everything.

And of course you ignored my perfectly legitimate point and attacked my opinion. How about we go back to the point on making Athletics/Acrobatics integrated into the perk tree system hmmm?

I'd rather not see them in as skills, but to couple them into a governing stat. However that would mean a different leveling system, and I'm not a big fan of the one from Morrowind or Oblivion. I like Skyrims, but choosing between just Stamina, Health, and Magika just seems to be slimming it down too much. It'd be interesting to see how to find a compromise between those two systems.

Players that invest more points into Stamina should receive additional bonuses to their movement speed and jump distances/height. Climbing should be in the game standard. Active Dodge should be in the game standard.

I don't think players really care if it is a skill or not, as long as they have an outlet to improve it. Putting it into the Perk tree is a waste.

How do you even use a computer? Bloody hell.

Stealth:
Alchemy
Light Armor
Sneak
Thievery (Combine pickpocket and lockpicking)
Athletics

Athletics should level by sprinting (not running) and jumping. This prevents auto-leveling if you travel by running. The frequency of sprinting/jumping on a character that doesn't want athletics as a major skill wouldn't cause you to overlevel any more than the current lockpicking skill does (or speech). Finally, since you don't need to increase acrobatics to make sure you get all your ability points at level up, there is no compulsion to jump everywhere.


There are a multitude of perks that would be useful:

Increase speed/jump
Iron lungs (longer waterbreathing)
Sprinter (Reduces stamina cost of sprint)
Weight training (increase carry capacity - remove extra pockets fromlockpicking)
Acrobat (enables a powerjump by holding the jump button - drains stamina)
Surefooted (reduce staggering)
Controlled Fall (reduce fall damage - replace the perk in HA with something useful)
Jump attack (can attack while jumping)

There you go. Added in a useful, non-tedious athletic skill, solved the problem of the useless lockpicking skill and perk tree and kept the balance among magic/combat/stealth.

they need to be in like cooking is : there but doesn't level you up in any way sorta like how "minor" skills used to be

i am for the re-introduction of "minor skills" that have disapeared or some of the majors that could do with being minor ( lockpicking )

mysticism could be a minor as it's not got enough spells left to be a full tree and brings back a few spells some people realy miss

arrow crafting -> a sub set of smithing as if you run out of arrows you don't want the process of making yourself a few hundred arrows to level you up.

and acrobatics/athletics/misc movement attaching while jumping -> running on water -> longer running when holding shift ( so no combat bonus really )

would be welcome aditions of things we lost moving to skyirm that arn't really imba ( except the attack while jumping possibly)

No, but being able to jump while sprinting would be appreciated.

And really? Jumping up on roofs is realistic? Ok, let's see you jump from the ground and up on a roof....

Acrobatics was not realistic at all, it wasn't fun either, there's no reason to bring it back. Athletics however, is pretty realistic since when you run a lot you can run faster and longer in real life as well, but it is potentially gamebreaking if tak,en too far.

Jump height and run speed should be tied to the race of your character, not as individual skills that unbalance the game.

Like the move speeds of each class in TF2, for instance. Best way that these could be implemented into Skyrim and should be trivial once the CK comes out.

It would be cool if you could do a sprinting long-jump

I would add that there ought to be a cool down period after a jump. Not anything significant, but jumping should not be a faster means of travel than running. {i]That[/i] is the reason so many people leveled acrobatics quickly. It got you places significantly quicker than hoofing it.

Of course, all these suggestions were made years ago and went pretty much ignored then. So don't expect anyone to take note...

That's just as stupid as not having it. Certain races should start out faster, but you should be able to catch up, exceptions do exist and should be accounted for in a game like TES.

Lolno. The beast races in TES games have nothing suggesting they're physically superior to the other races, other than being naturally more sneaky. I could tolerate the Khajiit having a slightly higher jump to start with, but only if this was trainable in the other races,

Also, being a vampire/werewolf should buff your athletics and jumping.

They need to have Fallout 3 style attributes for the next game. Give a part in the tutorial where you choose to put a set number of points into attributes. Then after that, you never see the attributes again and it could go straight into the perk style layout they have now. The attributes could be.
Strength
Endurance
Intelligence
Willpower
Speed
Acrobatics
Personality
(Luck is expendable, but they could put it back in)
I think this would solve all the problems.
Perhaps certain events throughout the game could allow you an extra point, but I think it works better to have it all done at the beginning.

EDIT: And races should get certain bonuses in these attributes to start out with as well.

I think one thing is pretty clear. At least in my view. The Athletics/acrobatic skill in earlier games was not well executed. I guess for Skyrims sake they needed fresh ideas regarding those skills and an idea how to implement them in the game. Apparently this didn't happen. There's a lot of things I wish would be in the game. Well unfortunately wishes don't always come through. We all love some features that we wish would be in the game.

I would love to see the athletics/acrobatic skills be implemented in a game, but its not a make or break point for me. More importantly is the game as a whole. The experience from the first minute to the 100 hour mark.
However I want to share some ideas how the these two skills can have a drastic improvement, but I don't think it would have been wise to try this on the current console tech. Unfortunately as we all know, the game is always made according to the lowest common denominator.

Athl/acrobat have to be more useful in the game. The skills must have a more practical meaning in combat and stealth. Someone mentioned Assassins creed. I get the idea though this is two rather different games

Acrobatics
In stealth combat. To be able to jump onto and hide on ledgers in dungeons or mountains to drop down on your enemy. Even underneath the roof if a pathway if corridor is narrow. This will add another dimension to a stealth character. Extra damage points etc. The character will take advantage of this acrobatic skill for scouting purposes.

In face to face combat. Using the environment like trees, walls and rocks to your advantage when attacking. I.e speed halfway up a wall to get a lethal blow to the enemys head/neck.

Athletics
Face to face combat. You may face a number of opponents at the same time. Rushing at great speed against them and then through the party with a blade or two will cause damage to multiple enemies. This can also be a way to stun in order to get away/hide or prepare for another attack.

Avoid traps etc. This is in some ways already implemented in Skyrim with the help of shouts and the stealth perks, but can still be used under athletics/Acrobatics

I would love to see variations of some of these ideas. Not necessary under athletics/Acrobatics. I wouldn't mind them using those skills, but its not make or break for me.

I prefer the Fallout-style attributes, plus you can choose to level an attribute instead of gaining another perk upon level up.

It would also make race differences more tangible, such as Nords and Orcs starting with a small strength bonus etc.

You got a brighter idea, then? :rolleyes:

Yeah he does have a better idea, and he said it.

Attributes should not be tied exclusively to race, but able to be developed by any race, while giving some races a slight bonus in some attributes.

Ideas have been posted in this thread and throughout the development cycle that would have allowed athletics/acrobatics to remain in as skills Cozar described one such solution above:

I'd add that jumping shouldn't be faster than running, simply because that's what makes sense. Try jumping somewhere and see how long it takes you to get their versus running. This was the main problem with past acrobatics systems, in that it was actually far more efficient to jump everywhere you went.

I would also argue that athletics and acrobatics need not be rolled together. I really don't care about the "balance" between archetypes in a game where hybrids are far more common than strict archetypal roles, but it's still a solution.

I just dont understand how they came to the conclusion it was best just to remove any sort of physical enhancement attributes or perks, and thus removing one of the staples of the Elder Scrolls series.

I am feeling a bit dramatic but it saddens me that the team at Bethesda (many of which have been around a long time) so easily just tossed out one of the Trademark Elder Scrolls Features.
Now of course "get better at what you do" wasnt for everyone, and i do think the addition of perks and attributes being focused in a more understandable way has added to the experience, just dont think they needed to Gut the whole thing so severly in the proccess.

:unsure: :confused: