There's obviously two side to this story.

What do you think? Seeing as how i believe he DID call the king out, I think he bested the challenged with the ancient martial art of the Thu'um in honorable combat, in accordance to Nord tradition.

I also believe that a strong Talos centered Empire needs the Stormcloaks to win so where are lines drawn? And Kudos to Beth for Not just throwing Black and White on the table. Grey is good. Muddly and good, especially in High Fantasy.

I personally favor the Stormcloaks and think they are Tamriel's last hope for a great empire under human control.
Ulfric Stormcloak murdered the high king in the same way a large ogre can murder a small goblin in a fight.
The high king had no chance Ulfric was a powerful warrior. He was a large pompous weakling.

Yet as two Jarls both equal in a moot's eyes, mortal combat should be a fitting debate mechanism to resolve dispute.

Totally not murder. It's like if Al Gore debated Global Warming with a down syndromed nine year old. No contest but still a clean fight.

Dragons debate all the time to the death. Who survives wins. Ulfric won the debate.

The fact is that Ulfric issued the challenge and the king accepted. Id call that legal. Whether its honorable is debatable, but its not murder. The king was given the choice to accept or not.

Pretty much.

Although, I do have to say. I originally favored the Stormcloaks (mostly because the first thing you see in the game is the Legion trying to cut your head off for no reason), but I'm starting to like Ulfric less and less every time I speak to him. (Spoilers incoming, I'll try to keep them as vague as possible though)

Actually, he wasn't, according to some people in the Blue Palace. It seems he was challenged in court with a lot of people attending, and that somehow forces him to accept any challenge. It appears Ulfric used a loophole to force him into the challenge, and then easily beat him with his Thu'um.

Exactly. Pretty much set up Torygg; like an assassination.

won the debate against someone who is mute to the voice meaning it wasnt a debate it was a parent yelling at a small frightened child

I believe Ulfrik challenged the High King and won honorably according to nord-tradition. What I disagree with is that he plunged Skyrim into a civil war before the Thalmor was defeated so I think the Empire is the better choice due to the presense and power of the Aldmeri Domnion.

The Empire licks the boots of the Aldmeri Dominion. They even go so far as Outlawing thier patron god for these uppity high elves. That's inexcusable from an Empire forged from said God. The Empire in it's current state is just a puppet for The Aldmeri. A puppet that needs to be burned off the hand before being resitched.

Id say assassin, but an honorable assassin, there was no "combat" he just barged in and blew up the high king using the voice... But he did it for the good of his people.

from what ive heard from npcs everything was fine till ulfric started ranting about the elves and when he killed torryg thats when the thalmor started cracking down on talos worship

Religon is one thing some people don't like being tramped on. I think he 'Spoke' for more than just himself.

Was it murder? Nope, but it certainly wasn't honorable. Ulfric challenged a young man who he knew he could easily beat in combat to a duel. Used a weapon his opponent didn't have (and might not have even known he faced) and he expects people to respect him for that? A better fight would be Ulfric vs Dovakiin. Let them compare shouts. ^_^

It was stated that the empire may have banned the worship, but they didn't enforce it. Until ulfric started his little fit which caused the thalmor to focus on it. So technically its his fault that talos worship is as it is. Also the empire had only taken small sacrifices to please the dominion which were then exaggerated by ulfric to support his cause.

On the matter of the fight, there was no need for ulfric to fight the king. It was said by a few people that the high king would have completely supported ulfric if asked, but ulfric seemed to not to care and only wanted power for himself.

He may have challanged him, but it wasn't a real challenge, and Ulfric knew it. He used a weapon that Torygg had no way of expecting, using, or countering. It's cheap and certainly not honorable. It'd be like challenging someone to a fist fight and then pulling out a gun as soon as they accepted.

I'm not normally big on lore, but I do find the tactics of war interesting, so I'm just going to throw this out there: the Empire is showing signs of recuperation-before-retaliation. Some times, to find the time for such a breather, you've got to give the opposition reason to relax. For the Empire, from what I've gathered, that was a treaty excommunicating one of their personal deities. That's one thing.

The other thing is, if Skyrim was to dishevel itself away from the Empire, it would not stand long. If a conglomerate body is incapable of fighting the opposition, a culturally-emancipated but politically-destitute one stands no chance whatsoever. As it stands, freeing the lands for the Nord is just freeing the lands for the Aldmeri. More than likely, there wouldn't even be a period for chance of surrender. As soon as the reigns of Skyrim fell lax in the hands of the Empire, the Aldmeri would trample the people and lands and retake reign for themselves. No question.

But, again, that's looking at it from a real-world perspective. This is a fantasy world which behaves completely at the writers' whims, so yeah. Have fun with your debate anyways. Ta-ta.

EDIT: Fixed some redundancy.

Bringing a gun to a knife duel is considered murder by my book. Ulfric basically cheated.

That said, I'm supporting him simply for talos.

Those who claims the that Skyrim cannot fend against a bunch of wimpy high elves have not seen an army of nords clad in full magic resist legendary steel armour which im build right now.

Regardless of what you think about the Stormcloaks, witnesses seem to agree that Ulfric did challenge the High King according to Nord custom, however there is disagreement about whether or not it was fair for him to use the Voice. He was trying to prove Skyrim's weakened leadership, although killing a king was a drastic demonstration.

As I have understood it it is only a matter of time before the conflict between the Dominion and the Empire breaks out again. Until then the Empire is building it's strength and biding it's time. Once the Dominion is enganged in war the Talos bann will most likely be lifted. While I do not support the fact that they allow the Dominion to get so much influense it is the only right thing to do in the long run. Skyrim cannot defeat the Dominion alone ad if they secced from the Empire they become too weak as well. If Skrim declares independence before the Dominion is defeated all is most likely lost.

it was clearly not honorable. everytime im having a fist fight im told only fists and no magic or weapons. if it had been a fight where ulfric won without using his voice then i would say he won fair and square but he used magic which his opponent didnt have. thats fine in a battlefield but not in a honorable duel. that would be like having to people do a duel with pistols and giving one of them a bullet proof vest.

Honor is a tool used by cowards to effectively make a weak person look stronger, balancing it out.

Ulfric isn't an assassin, but he is a kingslayer, a prejudical one at that.

Using the voice for personal gain is also forbidden, according to the Th'um code. This is the reason in the first place why the Th'um masters segregated themselves up on a mountain and they're not accepting students easily.

Ulfric should't have used it in a honor duel. Not to mention that Ulrfic's past record (that emerges by putting together several bit and pieces of information) is a good indication on how ruthless and selfish is.

Ulfric was a Jarl ke killed the king he had swore fealthy to, what's honorable about that? Also i'm told he's kind of a racist by people from his own court.

The Empire is more than just Nords, and all Ulfric care is Nords. I understand all the Talos thing but the what all Ulfric is doing is making it worse at a real bad time.