No idea who started it, but there is a link http://brink.wikia.com/wiki/Operative (they aren't letting me link it) to the first page I looked at (Operative). Tbh, I wanted to see the Pax vid's their content control deleted on [site which shall not be mentioned] and stumbled upon it.
the first page I look at has me cited as a source... lol.

At least I found it funny, here complaining all the time.



On another note...

I thought it was a little BS how the defense team had an easy time playing CoD with their precious cover for a few minutes at PAX, according to the new reviews (the design team is fixing it, I think I know the spot too, I looked at container city and saw 2 easily camp-able pathways for the first obj. *facepalm*), but I'll quote something. "The loading tip was right: Move more than you shoot. Stand still and you're just asking to die."

http://www.gamesradar.com/xbox360/brink/preview/brink-pax-2010-hands-on/a-20100903153935859007/g-2009052911331493062

gamesradar tends to be reputable, so at least for the week I probably won't complain about camping. Also, I think this is some sort of language that is trying to tell me that there are going to be plenty of flanking routes. This makes me happy.

from what I've been told, you can get camped but only 'till you use alternate routes, there's a flank for every camp. Getting thrown into a game with no knowledge of the game can be daunting, you tend to just go straight at first, with time comes understanding, of the map, the tactics and the counters, I'll wait and check the reviews after release, and of course, try the demo

:wink_smile:

Besides, the defending team was "camping" to defend the objective. A lot of maps give a slight cover advantage for the defending team. That's the reason why they are defending. However, I'm not saying that this will be the case in Brink.
(Think about D-day, there was no cover there either, just a real life example)

Not sure I get your D-Day example... I presume you mean no cover for the attackers otherwise.... well, defenders had a great spot lmao

When you attack IRL, by the book, you attack with 4 to 5 times as many people as you expect there to be to defend.... if you want to win at least.

66-75% casualties are both expected and acceptable by military standards.

I was a combat engineer, and one of our "jobs" was to clear a path through minefields and then to mark the path so that our tanks can drive through without getting blown up. It would take 1 APC, driver, commander, and 2 guys on the ground to do everything if you aren't getting shot. We practiced it with 3 tracks, fully loaded, with 4-6 guys in each track for doing the running ground work (planting the flags) Combat life expectancy for that maneuver was 3.5 seconds. Needless to say.... we never did it IRL (and haven't since before the Vietnam war.) but it is just a really REALLY good example of defender advantage.

Defending that same obstacle.... we could destroy an entire company on that objective with 3-4 guys and some artillery support. Hell. 1 guy and artillery will wipe out most of em.... the 3-4 are just so you have a few numbers mopping up whoever survived.


Attacking svcks.

I was trying to point out that defenders usually have more cover. I think D-day is a great example of that ^^

Unless the defenders are idiots, completely surprised or have no tactical experience... defenders ALWAYS have positional advantage.

Only way they don't is if the attackers have a means to bypass their defenses

In this game, there's a way to do that: SMART

Que the smart engineers who cover flank routes with mines and turrets

Yea, but our engi's will destroy/disarm them

It's a neverending cycle.

All of them?? Then whose guarding the direct route?

the soldiers and medics?

some times the defending team has to 'camp', or at least should, to defend vital positions. They aren't gonna just leave the route undefended, so why wouldn't engies 'camp' choke points. After all thats what operatives are for, getting past the enemy and hacking those turrents. and also there was an alternate route which can be openned by a soldier, so I'm guessing the route would be harder to defend for the defenders, and 2 routes are always harder to defend anyway. As long there is a counter to every choke point then its fine. In PAX hands ons no one had the time to learn the maps and the game properly so It was mainly just a test if combat was fun, rather than the balance of the maps.

True enough, defense it easier than offense. I am pretty sure Sun Tzu said something am bypassing the enemy strongpoints and attacking were he is weakest.



Touche' There should be several good choke points but also other places to flank




It really all depends on the map and the skills of the competiting teams.

Which is why PAX is a bad place for comment map balance, unless there is a hugely overpowered weapon or ability, PAX hands on are just to show the fun side of the game, since neither team has enough knowledge about the maps. Though I do imagine the objective system helps quite a bit.

And in real life, a hand full of defenders can take on an army serveral times their size. But in games this is less so, firstly one bullet does not kill/incapacitate you, secondly, if every chokepoint had a huge machine gun, bunker and barbed wire infront of it, the attacking team wouldn't even have a chance, also in brink there is a lot more cover for the attacking team than there would be in reall life. D Day for example took sheer numbers to overcome the artillery and machine guns, the only cover they had was tank traps designed to keep tanks form advancing, even then they were often shot by bullets in between the gaps or killed by artillery. D Day would not make a good multiplayer map if it was 8 v 8.

On the Brink wiki, not alot of content there. H0RSE should get over there and start editing.