Better fps in the wilderness than in cities? Confused : IV

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:02 am

I get 35-60 fps in virtually all wilderness areas, but in certain cities (Cheydinhal, Bravil, Imperial City, and Leyawiin are the worst) I get 15-20 fps with the same settings. No Better Cities, Crowded Cities, Animated Windows Lighting System, etc. Disabling All Natural and the Real Lights Addon does nothing. I've reinstalled about three times and played around with my mods to see whats causing the fps drops, but I really can't seem to find the problem. Everything seems fine but the low fps in cities creeps up out of nowhere after an hour or so of play. I'd do more investigating, but its exhausting reinstalling and individually adding and deactivating mods and play testing one after another, and I really can't seem to find a culprit. All I know is that when I have a fresh vanilla install, I get the same or better fps in cities than i do in wilderness areas, such as a dense part of The Great Forest.

Is it just mods that add scripts and such that are doing this? I have many of those. Because I really don't have many graphics enhancing mods, and that is what baffles me.

I've posted my load order. Any help would be greatly appreciated. :foodndrink:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:
00 Oblivion.esm
01 All Natural Base.esm [Version 1.3]
02 Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm [Version 4.5bSI]
03 Cobl Main.esm [Version 1.72]
04 TamrielTravellers.esm [Version 1.39c]
05 BetterMusicSystem.esm
** Cobl Races TNR.esp [Version 1.53]
** Cobl Races TNR SI.esp [Version 1.53]
06 BlackScreenToggleFix.esp
07 Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.2.0]
08 UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp [Version 1.0.0]
09 DLCShiveringIsles.esp
0A Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp [Version 1.4.0]
0B SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp [Version 1.30]
0C All Natural.esp [Version 1.3]
0D All Natural - SI.esp [Version 1.3]
0E Symphony of Violence.esp
0F Distant Chapel Bells.esp
10 Storms & Sound.esp
11 All Natural - Real Lights.esp [Version 1.3]
12 300_Lore_Dialogue_Updated.esp
13 Book Jackets Oblivion.esp
++ Cobl Bookjackets.esp
14 FOV Modifier.esp
++ Cyrodilic Brandy.esp
15 Days&Months.esp
16 Inebriation.esp
17 More Effective Enchantments.esp
18 More Effective Enchantments SI.esp
19 BetterMusicSystem(SI).esp [Version 1.0]
1A P1DseeYouSleep.esp
1B Camping.esp
1C Portable Campsite - Quickstart.esp
1D Enhanced Economy.esp [Version 5.3]
1E PTRoamingNPCs.esp
1F DropLitTorchOBSE.esp [Version 2.4]
20 kuerteeAutoSaveAndTime.esp
21 kuerteeSittableRocks.esp
22 sycNiceToMeetYou.esp
23 Streamline 3.1.esp
24 DLCHorseArmor.esp
25 DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]
26 SM Plugin Refurbish - HorseArmor.esp [Version 1.11]
27 DLCOrrery.esp
28 DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.3]
29 SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp [Version 1.11]
2A DLCVileLair.esp
2B DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]
2C SM Plugin Refurbish - VileLair.esp [Version 1.21]
2D P1DseeYouSleep - DLCVileLair.esp
2E DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
2F DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]
30 SM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.esp [Version 1.30]
31 DLCSpellTomes.esp
32 DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1]
++ CM_Better Wine.esp
33 XSPipeMod.esp [Version 1.2]
34 Rope Ladders v1.esp
35 Command Mount.esp
36 LadyDeadlock_LoveYourHorse.esp
37 Weapon Expansion Pack for Oblivion Nthusiasts.esp [Version 1.03]
38 DLCThievesDen.esp
39 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]
3A DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp [Version 1.0.4]
3B SM Plugin Refurbish - ThievesDen.esp [Version 1.30]
3C Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp
3D Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp
3E Francesco's Optional Dungeon Chest Loot.esp
3F Francesco's Optional Dungeon Chest Locks.esp
40 Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp
41 Francesco's Optional House Chest Loot.esp
42 Francesco's Optional New Adventurers.esp
43 Francesco's Optional Vendor Tweaks.esp
44 Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp
45 Francesco's Optional Leveled Arena.esp
46 Cobl Glue.esp [Version 1.72]
47 Cobl Si.esp [Version 1.63]
48 Cobl Tweaks.esp [Version 1.44]
49 FarmAnimalsofCyrodiil.esp [Version 1.4]
4A Creatures Alive v1.3.esp
4B TamrielTravellers.esp [Version 1.39c]
++ TamrielTravellersItemsnpc.esp [Version 1.39c]
4C TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp [Version 1.39c]
4D ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp [Version 1.39c]
4E ShiveringIsleTravellersFriendlyFactions.esp [Version 1.39c]
4F Oblivifall - Something's Not Right.esp [Version 1.0]
50 TamrielTransportationNetwork.esp
51 ShiveringIslesTransportationNetwork.esp
52 Cliff_PersonalGuildStorageChest.esp [Version 1.0]
53 Tavern-Goers 2.esp
54 Travelers Inns.esp
55 DLCFrostcrag.esp
56 DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]
57 SM Plugin Refurbish - FrostCrag.esp [Version 1.2]
58 Knights.esp
59 Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.9]
5A More Effective Enchantments Knights.esp
5B SM Plugin Refurbish - Knights.esp [Version 1.06]
5C Harvest [Flora].esp [Version 3.0.0]
5D Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp [Version 3.0.0]
5E Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp [Version 3.0.0]
5F Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp [Version 3.0.0]
60 HUD Status Bars.esp [Version 4.2.1]
61 kuerteeInventoryIsABackpack.esp
62 Oblivifall - Ambiant Dungeon SFX.esp [Version 3.0]
63 Oblivifall - Closing Time.esp [Version 1.0]
64 Oblivifall - Let's Talk!.esp [Version 1.1]
65 Oblivifall - New Classes.esp [Version 1.2]
66 Quest Award Leveller.esp [Version 2.0.1]
67 Quest Award Leveller - Vile Lair.esp [Version 2.1.0]
68 Quest Award Leveller - Mehrunes Razor.esp [Version 2.1.0]
69 Quest Award Leveller - Knights of the Nine.esp [Version 2.1.0]
6A StartChoices.esp
6B RealisticFatigue.esp
6C Basic Primary Needs.esp
6D RealisticForceMedium.esp
6E RealisticMagicForceLow.esp
6F Syc_AtHomeAlchemy.esp
70 Stealth Entrances v1.esp
71 RenGuardOverhaul.esp
72 Duke Patricks - Combat Archery.esp [Version 5.1.3]
73 Duke Patricks - Melee Combat NO RECOIL.esp [Version 2.6.5]
74 Sneaking Detection Recalibrated.esp
75 immersive_caves_auto.esp
++ Cava Obscura - Cyrodiil.esp
++ Cava Obscura - SI.esp
** Cava Obscura - Filter Patch For Mods.esp
76 Cobl Races.esp [Version 1.52]
77 Faster Horses with Names.esp
++ Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp [Version 1.53]
78 SBsaddlebagsMult.esp
79 No More Annoying Messages.esp [Version 1.3]
7A Cobl Silent Equip Misc.esp [Version 01]
** All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp [Version 1.3]
7B Bashed Patch, 0.esp

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:17 am

I get 35-60 fps in virtually all wilderness areas, but in certain cities (Cheydinhal, Bravil, Imperial City, and Leyawiin are the worst) I get 15-20 fps with the same settings. No Better Cities, Crowded Cities, Animated Windows Lighting System, etc. Disabling All Natural and the Real Lights Addon does nothing. I've reinstalled about three times and played around with my mods to see whats causing the fps drops, but I really can't seem to find the problem. Everything seems fine but the low fps in cities creeps up out of nowhere after an hour or so of play. I'd do more investigating, but its exhausting reinstalling and individually adding and deactivating mods and play testing one after another, and I really can't seem to find a culprit. All I know is that when I have a fresh vanilla install, I get the same or better fps in cities than i do in wilderness areas, such as a dense part of The Great Forest.

Is it just mods that add scripts and such that are doing this? I have many of those. Because I really don't have many graphics enhancing mods, and that is what baffles me.

I've posted my load order. Any help would be greatly appreciated. :foodndrink:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:
00 Oblivion.esm
01 All Natural Base.esm [Version 1.3]
02 Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm [Version 4.5bSI]
03 Cobl Main.esm [Version 1.72]
04 TamrielTravellers.esm [Version 1.39c]
05 BetterMusicSystem.esm
** Cobl Races TNR.esp [Version 1.53]
** Cobl Races TNR SI.esp [Version 1.53]
06 BlackScreenToggleFix.esp
07 Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.2.0]
08 UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp [Version 1.0.0]
09 DLCShiveringIsles.esp
0A Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp [Version 1.4.0]
0B SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp [Version 1.30]
0C All Natural.esp [Version 1.3]
0D All Natural - SI.esp [Version 1.3]
0E Symphony of Violence.esp
0F Distant Chapel Bells.esp
10 Storms & Sound.esp
11 All Natural - Real Lights.esp [Version 1.3]
12 300_Lore_Dialogue_Updated.esp
13 Book Jackets Oblivion.esp
++ Cobl Bookjackets.esp
14 FOV Modifier.esp
++ Cyrodilic Brandy.esp
15 Days&Months.esp
16 Inebriation.esp
17 More Effective Enchantments.esp
18 More Effective Enchantments SI.esp
19 BetterMusicSystem(SI).esp [Version 1.0]
1A P1DseeYouSleep.esp
1B Camping.esp
1C Portable Campsite - Quickstart.esp
1D Enhanced Economy.esp [Version 5.3]
1E PTRoamingNPCs.esp
1F DropLitTorchOBSE.esp [Version 2.4]
20 kuerteeAutoSaveAndTime.esp
21 kuerteeSittableRocks.esp
22 sycNiceToMeetYou.esp
23 Streamline 3.1.esp
24 DLCHorseArmor.esp
25 DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]
26 SM Plugin Refurbish - HorseArmor.esp [Version 1.11]
27 DLCOrrery.esp
28 DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.3]
29 SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp [Version 1.11]
2A DLCVileLair.esp
2B DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]
2C SM Plugin Refurbish - VileLair.esp [Version 1.21]
2D P1DseeYouSleep - DLCVileLair.esp
2E DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
2F DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]
30 SM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.esp [Version 1.30]
31 DLCSpellTomes.esp
32 DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1]
++ CM_Better Wine.esp
33 XSPipeMod.esp [Version 1.2]
34 Rope Ladders v1.esp
35 Command Mount.esp
36 LadyDeadlock_LoveYourHorse.esp
37 Weapon Expansion Pack for Oblivion Nthusiasts.esp [Version 1.03]
38 DLCThievesDen.esp
39 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]
3A DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp [Version 1.0.4]
3B SM Plugin Refurbish - ThievesDen.esp [Version 1.30]
3C Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp
3D Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp
3E Francesco's Optional Dungeon Chest Loot.esp
3F Francesco's Optional Dungeon Chest Locks.esp
40 Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp
41 Francesco's Optional House Chest Loot.esp
42 Francesco's Optional New Adventurers.esp
43 Francesco's Optional Vendor Tweaks.esp
44 Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp
45 Francesco's Optional Leveled Arena.esp
46 Cobl Glue.esp [Version 1.72]
47 Cobl Si.esp [Version 1.63]
48 Cobl Tweaks.esp [Version 1.44]
49 FarmAnimalsofCyrodiil.esp [Version 1.4]
4A Creatures Alive v1.3.esp
4B TamrielTravellers.esp [Version 1.39c]
++ TamrielTravellersItemsnpc.esp [Version 1.39c]
4C TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp [Version 1.39c]
4D ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp [Version 1.39c]
4E ShiveringIsleTravellersFriendlyFactions.esp [Version 1.39c]
4F Oblivifall - Something's Not Right.esp [Version 1.0]
50 TamrielTransportationNetwork.esp
51 ShiveringIslesTransportationNetwork.esp
52 Cliff_PersonalGuildStorageChest.esp [Version 1.0]
53 Tavern-Goers 2.esp
54 Travelers Inns.esp
55 DLCFrostcrag.esp
56 DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]
57 SM Plugin Refurbish - FrostCrag.esp [Version 1.2]
58 Knights.esp
59 Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.9]
5A More Effective Enchantments Knights.esp
5B SM Plugin Refurbish - Knights.esp [Version 1.06]
5C Harvest [Flora].esp [Version 3.0.0]
5D Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp [Version 3.0.0]
5E Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp [Version 3.0.0]
5F Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp [Version 3.0.0]
60 HUD Status Bars.esp [Version 4.2.1]
61 kuerteeInventoryIsABackpack.esp
62 Oblivifall - Ambiant Dungeon SFX.esp [Version 3.0]
63 Oblivifall - Closing Time.esp [Version 1.0]
64 Oblivifall - Let's Talk!.esp [Version 1.1]
65 Oblivifall - New Classes.esp [Version 1.2]
66 Quest Award Leveller.esp [Version 2.0.1]
67 Quest Award Leveller - Vile Lair.esp [Version 2.1.0]
68 Quest Award Leveller - Mehrunes Razor.esp [Version 2.1.0]
69 Quest Award Leveller - Knights of the Nine.esp [Version 2.1.0]
6A StartChoices.esp
6B RealisticFatigue.esp
6C Basic Primary Needs.esp
6D RealisticForceMedium.esp
6E RealisticMagicForceLow.esp
6F Syc_AtHomeAlchemy.esp
70 Stealth Entrances v1.esp
71 RenGuardOverhaul.esp
72 Duke Patricks - Combat Archery.esp [Version 5.1.3]
73 Duke Patricks - Melee Combat NO RECOIL.esp [Version 2.6.5]
74 Sneaking Detection Recalibrated.esp
75 immersive_caves_auto.esp
++ Cava Obscura - Cyrodiil.esp
++ Cava Obscura - SI.esp
** Cava Obscura - Filter Patch For Mods.esp
76 Cobl Races.esp [Version 1.52]
77 Faster Horses with Names.esp
++ Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp [Version 1.53]
78 SBsaddlebagsMult.esp
79 No More Annoying Messages.esp [Version 1.3]
7A Cobl Silent Equip Misc.esp [Version 01]
** All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp [Version 1.3]
7B Bashed Patch, 0.esp

I had the same problem, but of course, how mysterious my PC is, it gained the FPS again so idk what it is. I would roughly guess the All Natural, but I have it too so....:shrug:

EDIT: I just remembered, when I Googled the problem a while back when I had it, it talked about how it could be the AI packages processing, so when you think about it it makes sense

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:43 am

I find that I usually get poor fps in cities, well mostly in the market district of the imperial city. I'm using the better cities mod, so I dunno. Usually the fps goes down with lots of npcs on screen, I imagine it's not really weather or environment effects, but all the processing power for the npcs. I can get similar slowdown for other places with lots of npcs and monsters, like inside and oblivion gate tower. I've got ooo/mmm, so maybe that increases spawns more than usual.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:20 pm

Its the load of AI processing. Cities have more NPCs with more complex AI then monsters in the wilderness.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:17 am

And depending on mod setups, city clutter volumes can get quite large. Better Cities can go rather crazy with the polys in some areas, for instance, and that will slow you down a fair deal.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:11 pm

Thanks for the replies. So it looks like the only solution would be to disable some AI processing mods? I have many of those like all my Duke Patricks mods, Sneaking Detection Recalibrated, Realistic Fatigue, etc. They add so much to the gameplay :nope:

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:44 pm

It is impossible for any mods to alter the AI processing, as that occurs on the engine level. You can teach the AI new tricks through scripting and whatnot, but you cannot change how the calculations are made.

The only way to lighten AI processing loads in this game is to remove NPCs.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:30 pm

OR to cut down on the number of AI packs each NPC has, though that's generally a lot more labor intensive.

Funny thing about FPS issues though. I usually run into most of mine out in the wilderness, away from the cities. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's ever reported that either.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:46 pm

You might try checking what you have for AI: Max Active Actors and Combat:Max Actors settings. Don't know if any of the mods you're running altered those directly, although you can override via the Bashed Patch Tweak Settings area. Don't go less than the default Oblivion values, and Combat:Max Actors always needs to be less than AI: Max Active Actors.

Just keep in mind that if you do that, you may have NPCs just standing around inactive, i.e. the "bandit is just standing there doing nothing when I walk by" phenomena.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:31 am

It is impossible for any mods to alter the AI processing, as that occurs on the engine level. You can teach the AI new tricks through scripting and whatnot, but you cannot change how the calculations are made.

The only way to lighten AI processing loads in this game is to remove NPCs.

Oh ok so a lot of extra scripting on npcs might be causing the issue. Im now leaning towards this because my fps only lowers when I'm facing an area of the town that overlooks a wide view with more NPCs.

OR to cut down on the number of AI packs each NPC has, though that's generally a lot more labor intensive.

Funny thing about FPS issues though. I usually run into most of mine out in the wilderness, away from the cities. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's ever reported that either.

Yes on my previous installs that would only be the case. Cities were nice to my PC. That's why I was so confused on my latest install and load order, where my fps was dropping pretty dramatically in some cities. How would I cut down AI packs exactly?

You might try checking what you have for AI: Max Active Actors and Combat:Max Actors settings. Don't know if any of the mods you're running altered those directly, although you can override via the Bashed Patch Tweak Settings area. Don't go less than the default Oblivion values, and Combat:Max Actors always needs to be less than AI: Max Active Actors.

Just keep in mind that if you do that, you may have NPCs just standing around inactive, i.e. the "bandit is just standing there doing nothing when I walk by" phenomena.

I will try this soon.