Smithing is Illogical : V - Skyrim

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:36 pm

The logic of the game annoys me sometimes. First, it said I needed Iron Ore and Corundum or to smelt Steel. Everyone alive knows you need iron ore and coal to smelt steel. Corundum (rubies and sapphires) is aluminum oxide. Maybe you could smelt it to some beneficial result, but it doesn't make steel.

Now it's telling me I can't make alloys of any kind with ingots. Only ore. I have iron ingots, and charcoal (hell I have corundum ingots for that matter), why can't I smelt steel with that? Ingots are even EASIER than ore to smelt. I mean you don't have to be a metallurgist to know that. It's just common sense.

And before someone goes prattling on about how it's stupid to look for real-life logic in a game about magic, the game is based/on in real-life. Everything about the game except the races and the magic is based in real life. And not being able to smelt ingots is stupid.

I can't see how it overbalances the game somehow.

OH NO! ALERT THE INTERNET! WE HAVE AN EMERGENCY HERE PEOPLE!!! CORUNDUM R SRYUS BIZNUZ!

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:01 am

Thank you very much!

Keep in mind: it's not corundum used to make steel ingots - it's corundum ore.

Chemistry/Metallurgy in Tamriel isn't very advanced: The smith's don't know the metallic elements they need - they work with the elemental "bundles" found in ores. (Kind of like building decks with Booster packs in CCGs instead of buying Single cards)

Mixing corundum ore with iron ore in the smelter makes a better sword/armor-grade steel, likely because of the corrosion-resistant Chromium, and hardness of Corundum (Don't want a blade that can't scratch dragon hide!)

Orichalium is just a different form of Iron Ore with other metals that lead to an even stronger type of Steel than chromium(corundum) steel, that picks up a green tinge from its trace elements.

Ebony isn't steel at all: It's glass. Very strong, resilient glass: It has to be heated and softened before it can be worked with: otherwise, it just shatters. Of course, the force required to shatter it requires either persistance (caused by ineptly trying to repair it) or ridiculous impact.

It also helps to read the book on the subject: They explicitly mention that Corundum is added to the ores to strengthen the "Steel".

Yes, all that raises a good point: there are lots of variations on iron in the real world. Even within steel, there are many variables, from the carbon content to possible alloyed metals. Also, some metallurgical terms are not all that specific. For example, bronze is generally thought of as an alloy of copper and tin, but a quick look at Wikipedia tells me (I never use it for reference on controversial topics, but it's convenient otherwise) that before tin, people made bronze as an alloy of copper and arsenic. Bronze can also be difficult to differentiate from brass; what, exactly is the difference between brass and copper, given that both are generally alloys of copper with varying other metals? Well, Wikipedia says that brass is specifically copper and zinc, but that it can also have added lead to improve machineability.

Metallurgy is obscure. Yeah, I don't at all know that there is any form of steel that uses corundum as an alloying agent, but then I don't know that there isn't, either. Perhaps corundum was the only usable form of aluminum in ancient times? I know that aluminum was extremely rare just a couple centuries ago, and more valuable by weight than platinum.

Anyway, the complaint about corundum in steel is rather narrow and nitpicky.

EDIT: I will admit that it would probably make sense for them to allow you to use ingots to make other ingots - as in, one iron ingot or ore plus one corundum ingot or ore produces one steel ingot. Keep in mind, though, that all ingots except iron require two ore, so you'd be losing a corundum ore if you used an ingot in its place.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:31 pm

last i checked iron and coal =/= steel, i mean in runescape maybe

you have to do something to the coal first, i think you turn it into coke, then mix it with ultra hot iron and maybe u get steel, not sure, but it seems like it would be near impossible in tamriel since they seem to be medival, iirc steel stuff was uber rare back before the industrial revolution

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:26 am

Everyone alive knows you forge daedric weapons and armor by taking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebony (wood) and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart (a heart)

Exactly. All that matters is that it's a game and they created a formula the players have to follow - likely based on the amount of materials possible to find in the world. I have never stopped to think about the logic behind whatever I'm crafting, in Skyrim or any other. You look up what you need on the internet, go get it, and put it together. That's that.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:31 am

First off.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel

Secondly all these metals are actually Aedric materials that could have unique and untold ways of working with each other. Corundum for one is clearly not the corundum of Earth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corundum

Btw Glass and Ebony have nothing to do with their real world counterparts. It was explained in Morrowind I think. They are basically just slang names. Like white people being called white when they are more a pinkish tan.

This is just further reinforcing Nirn is not Earth IMO.

However there are tons of areas they could have paid a little more attention too. However they did have to make a game....I just wish they made the damn thing more playable...can't play it right now because of 1.2 patch and rolling back is a temp fix which I am through dealing with. They either fix it or not I am not playing till it is fixed.