you who cares about meaning...just so long as i get my jollies it doesnt matter-society, 2011

is it?

The main problem as I can see in this is the freedom. There's no designed path, the devs cannot hand-craft the experience for you to make it more memorable, more enjoyable without letting you or forbidding you from doing doing something specific.
Yes, there are going to be balance issues when you've got freedom and when that is taken away, everybody whines for making the game "linear".
You cannot define everything completely add full quality to everything when there are so many of it, you cannot have full quality AND quantity, it's impossible.
Leveling does feel like "it happens" because there are NO experience points, ever since Daggerfall, you get stronger by doing things, I doubt you were hardly working forward to see the "you need to sleep to level up" icon in Morrowind or Oblivion, the "skill increased" sign meant much more than that.

Why would I think that? Because the "substantial shift compared to Daggerfall" was in fact with the world design, in the case of Gameplay, it's hardly any different.

So if there's anything wrong with Skyrim, that's wrong in the entire series, in fact, it's probably one of the pillars of the series and changing it would mean changing the whole series, and you know what most people reaction here is to change...

So essentially you're mad because you're not getting you jollies when most others are? Seems like a personal problem.

What? I think you miss read.

Skyrim shouldn't have anything to do with social or sematic definitions. Its a game.

But yeah sure.

I think the trouble comes in when people concentrate on one particular character concept (aside from the straightforward warrior or battlemage) and expect the game to do it justice. This was a big failure on the part of Bethesda; if I make a Thief, then the game should be reasonable playable as a thief, rather than just allowing me to perform petty burglary at the price of having perpetually empty homes and stores for the remainder of the game. It would be necessary to devote a great deal of time and resources into fleshing out all class experiences.

This means that most quests, excepting the guild quests, should have multiple avenues of completion. A thief character should be able to steal an item to blackmail a rich noble. A personality-based character should be able to talk his way to completion, or hire an extra companion to help him complete combat-centric quests. Mages, with a properly expanded spell list, would have a variety of ways to complete tasks other than spamming fireballs.

In addition, the game world and the perk lines needed to be designed with these playstyles in mind. Speech should have given an increased ability to hire and inspire companions, giving an effective combat ability boost to such a character. Lockpicking should have allowed for you to unlock and lock doors, with corresponding NPC AI to get past a locked door (really, they needed to make the minigame much harder as well so that skill above 15 actually mattered). Even crafting-based characters should have been considered, letting you complete tasks by virtue of the items you could create.

Currently, the game is really designed for a combat approach, randomly delving into dungeons for the sake of doing so. Following a particular quest chain or even a main guild quest line proves far too simple and shallow. Actually playing as a thief is just a matter of overcoming the limited NPC AI and clearing out one shop after the next. AI will not respond to any of these burglaries or your actions in any way unless you trip the "witnessed" flag. Playing as a character with high personality is impossible, as the entire skill has been reduced to Mercantile.

Think of Skyrim like an eggshell. Don't spend too much time thinking about or delving into a particular area, and you won't notice how tenuously its all held together.

I dont understand why threads like this get so many replies when its painfully obvious its a troll thread. The quests in Skyrim, I honestly cant see how any video game's quests can get any better. If you have an idea, then by all means specify how it can get better. The combat is engaging and you actually have to move around to stand a chance. If these people really disliked Skyrim they wouldn't be on this forums, only thing that comes to mind is they get annoyed by the hype and try to spread dissent among the ones who enjoy the game

You don't see how quests can improve? These quests are -terrible-. You have one way of completing the quests. You have one outcome. It's exceptionally linear and poorly designed.

A quest, properly done, can be completed a variety of ways. Your actions will determine the outcome of the quest, the reward(s) you recieve, and the way that those actors involved respond to you, as well as the impact on the world in general.

I'm not sure what this list is responding to. Is it what?

If that's a list of challenges in the development of a large, open world game, then sure. But the fact that something requires effort doesn't mean it's okay to turn in something only marginally better than what we were given ten years ago.

The change in world design will obviously affect the gameplay design as well. Not to mention the jump to real 3D environments. There's a wholly different priority focus when you're experimenting with a fully realized, highly detailed world that you don't have to deal with if the majority of your worldspace is randomly generated.

And that's still ignoring that Morrowind was made nearly ten years ago. The strides in technology should mean improved mechanics, not simply visuals.

Um, what? There is something wrong with the whole series, but changing that doesn't change the series because changing it is fixing problems, not removing features. Improving AI beyond abysmal, for example. No one would argue that stupid AI is some hallmark feature of the Elder Scrolls series that must be preserved. Testing your game so there aren't ludicrous balancing issues (I mean, it's hilarious that they remove spell crafting because it's "too exploitable" and then implement smithing and enchanting in ways that absolutely dwarf the problems with spellcrafting). More factions and lengthier faction lines (both of which existed in Morrowind). More choice, greater consequence (a standard for any RPG). These are fixes to problems, not changes.

well...id like a dodge mechanic for one for combat...so i dont simply have to run away around a corner to LoS something.

but you really tink quests where you have one dialogue option (wich equates to yes) and maybe two (yes or no) is great? i mean ome of the quests are interesting themselves...but ill forever hold games like the original dragon age origins as a way to tell a story and to do quests.

then games like deus ex for sheer number of ways to complete quests.

if im a thief, or a mage, or have high speech/sneak etc...why do most of my stuff have to be done with brute force? in a game that promotes choice and player freedom...these things get looked at more closely...and are found lacking.

drunken quest was fun for example....tho if i managed to sell the goat to te giant....how come wen i try to get it back i cant talk to the giant? the game just wants me to run..thats it.

Actually you are wrong, there are plenty of quests when you can choose the outcome. Now I think you havent even played Skyrim. Take the dark brotherhood recruit quest for example, if you kill Astrid there, you get a quest to eliminate them afterwards. There are plenty more like that. You didnt even specify further than "there just needs to be different ways to complete the quest", exactly how do you mean? They give you the option to talk them in, or to eliminate them on some of the quests. Also, on some there are optional things you can do to get better rewards. They do act different depending on what you do. You have not even played Skyrim, off with your trolling which is obvious now

Whoa, so six and mastvrbation are..... :celebration:
Call of Duty: Boner Ops

And what big gameplay changes have Morrowind got because of the engine and smaller world?

The combat is the same, the spells are the same, the inventory is the same, the character development is the same...
I can hardly think any gameplay related problems that got only introduced in Morrowind, maybe the AI issue, but that's one of the stupidest thing to complain about. Bring me example for a flawless AI, FROM ANY GAME.
Balancing would be always an issue in a singleplayer game, as there ALWAYS will be exploits and unless the game forces you to use them, they hardly matter (and no, spellmaking was not removed because it was OP)
The rest have nothing to do with the series as a whole just the common "we want both quality AND quantity" impossible request...

A dictionary is the most accurate source, because it is the objective source and not dependent at all on an individual person's perspective or interpretation. I'm sorry you do not understand that, and there is no clearer way that I can explain it to you, except to politely suggest you continue your education in English class, and further, linguistics. Or maybe just look up a few lectures or works by a gentleman of the name Noam Chomsky, as he is considered the foremost authority on language, its structure and constructs.



Sorry, but this strikes me as a false premise for how to "read" something. I can read things as many different ways as I want, but I tend to read things according to the language as it is, not as how one wishes to twist around meanings because he doesn't have a better vocabulary or clearer way of expressing himself. If someone wants to speak Jive to me, he can speak Jive to me, but that doesn't mean that I'm somehow required to speak in the same fashion as him.



Everything I have stated has nothing to do with belief, but everything to do with fact. I would not bother wasting time with asserting how I believe things are, when I can simply point to the facts since facts can stand for themselves, while belief must be justified and explained in order to have acceptance.



Unnecessary remarks and implied insults will do you no favors. Nothing I have stated has anything to do with what you are suggesting here.



The middle ground is objectivity, not subjectivity, and you have been suggesting that a subjective understanding is what is necessary to "get" this article.



Yes, it is more than just about language, but language is one of the central facets that shapes its point. It is more about the hubris of man over God, and how oftentimes it is the hubris and ego of one that causes his downfall. There are other facets of it that people can elaborate upon further, I'm sure. I pointed out the language aspect, because that is what is applicable here.

Skyrim is more like a sandbox program waiting to be filled by modders. It is a beautiful word, but other than that nothing is fully functional or balanced. I feel sorry for anyone who purchased it on a console.

@doewnskitty, ty for misunderstanding my entire post.

skyrim is the best action-adventure ever :whistling:

Did anyone look up the Terminator game Bethesda made in 1990? It looks just as fun as Skyrim does now.

Indeed. The dungeons you are usually sent to are mostly very linear as well. It's like playing Half-Life but with worse puzzles. Combat and combat AI is still pretty terrible and has hardly improved from Oblivion. Gameplay isn't fluid, because you still have to go into the inventory or favorites menu to change gear, spells or chug a few potions. The reviewer is right, the 'moment-to-moment' gameplay just isn't very good, and never has been in Bethesda's games. Their large open worlds are nice, but what's so great about them when you still end up with linear quests in linear dungeons with clunky combat?

Oh, no problem.

I didn't think you would try responding, since it was becoming pretty clear that you didn't know what you were really talking about.

But really, think about taking some more classes on English and linguistics, it'll really help you with understanding and expressing yourself better.

Cheers.

You know, compare any traditional RPG, or I guess jRPG would be more accurate to say, and they don't even BEGIN to hold a candle to the level of actual "role playing" that takes place in the elder scrolls games. Final Fantasy VII was a fun GAME but it was by no means a good ROLE PLAYING game, the choices were litterally limited to what characters were in your party and what materia they equiped.

In skyrim & other TES games, the entire life of your character is your decision. And that, in my humble opinion, is why TES are some of the BEST role playing games.

It's when I'm reading reviews like this that I wonder where this fantastic game with brilliant gameplay, no bugs, and incredible user interface, story and graphics is, because I haven't found it yet.

I think that all games are judged with unrealistic standards, and I often get the impression that the games aren't being compared to past games, by nostalgic memories of those "perfect" games from 10+ years ago which in reality are, to be incredibly blunt, crap by modern standards.

I really do think that people are suffering from both entitlement and a lack of appreciation. Back when games were still new you made the most of the games you had, and they were great, because that was all you had. But now that there are 100+ games companies out there everybody seems to think that each company has a right to make them exactly what they want, and they never take the time to appreciate what the game's actually give them.

People seem to go out of their way to find any flaw in the game, spend all of their time moping over the flaws they do find, and then go onto forums like these and spend hours writing scathing reports of everything they hate and why the game is rubbish, and then wonder why they aren't having fun. Maybe if these people actually played the game instead of playing "Trying to find and whine about flaws in the game" they would start finally having some fun.

Maybe the developers should just stop making games altogether? Honestly, people fuss so much you'd think that was what they want. Maybe if there were no more games people would come to appreciate what we do have more.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. None of those are the same. Not from Arena to Daggerfall, not from Daggerfall to Morrowind, not from Morrowind to Oblivion, and not from Oblivion to Skyrim.

I specifically said Morrowind did not make large gameplay fixes, both because of the time it was made and because the focus was on crafting a completely difference type of world than what Beth had previous experience with. Those excuses that worked in the case of Morrowind (more or less) do no work in the case of Skyrim. That's why you can't say something like, "Morrowind handled this terribly so it's okay for this new game, made ten years later on a massively huger budget to do the same thing terribly." The comparison is completely invalid.

No one asked for flawless. They asked for not stupid. There's a pretty clear difference, one being pretty reasonable given the time and intelligent AI designed in other games.

:huh: This was one of the primary reasons given. Spellcrafting was too easily exploited. The other reason being the implementation of more unique spells. The first one would have been a valid reason had they either fixed the balance issues or not spun around and implemented other extremely unbalanced crafting systems. The second is not valid as spellcrafting does not preclude unique spells.

Yeah, they do. Factions obviosly a very important, choices and consequences are very important. The former has existed in previous Elder Scrolls games. It's silly to suggest that something like that is an impossible request when Bethesda has proved themselves capable in the past. The later is something Beth has never been especially good with, but that doesn't excuse it's absence. I'd rather games build and expand on their predecessors rather than simply trading one feature for another for a net gain of none. That's something that ought to be expected, not a rarity.

ive taken advanced english courses...tho admittedly not linguistics.

what the advanced english classes teach me? that people who teach advanced english likes to use useless words like rhetoric and svck the sole out of the human language until its a dead bit of fish on your insole to be scraqed away. im pretty sure if i did take linguistics id just belittle the teachers the entire time and there profession, as its only use is to take osmething nice and drag it thru dirt.

my point still stands tho, game...is far more then that one definition, nobody has disproved that, actually if we wrote only according to exact definitions our conversations would look damn weird O.o.

100% correct. TES was not and is not made for power gaming. The sooner you realise this the better. I pity people who think TES ends once you are the leader of each faction and have full Daedric armour.

I am reviewing this thread. But I need to go wash up after snorting tea up my nose after reading the line "Dictionaries are outdated" and laughing.