Smithing light armor is pointless? : V - Skyrim

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:37 am

Aren't there weapons that are even better than daedric when enhanced? I know chillrend and nightingale blade (when it gets fixed), will have a higher damage rating than daedric swords when you sharpen them.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:55 pm

omfg i am not debating about being a heavy armor class or a light armor class, im specially talking about what a [censored] waste of perks it is to go on the light armor side of smithing vs the heavy side, THE END RESULTS STILL ALLOW YOU TO CREATE LIGHT OR HEAVY DRAGON ARMOR so y the [censored] would i spend points for the lgith armor side even if im a light armor guy when taking the right side will still give me the SAME results WITH daedric weapons WITH a few extra saved perks to spend elsewear

i dont give 2 [censored] about the differences between light armor classes vs heavy when the smithing tree is obviously biased.

i totally agree, i chose heavy armour for my main so haven't experienced it but i assumed you'd be able to go down from dragon armour to daedric. Similarly if you are a heavy armour user it's pointless to invest beyond daedric into dragon as dragon is worse, the way they have the tree set up makes it seem superior - a wasted perk

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:22 pm

The key word in this entire argument is "eventually" and "the end result". Once you've got your 80 - 100 smithing the light side will be a bit less good compared to the heavy side in terms of weapons. But for that you spend one perk less, and from levels 30-79 the light armour side of the perk tree actually has the better weapons, which should be most of the game. Only when you're already getting gear that's pretty OP, the heavy armour side gets the advantage... that they don't really need anymore.

If you're min-maxing this is a huge life changing issue. If not, then you can see that the light armour side of the smithing perk tree is actually very strong. Even for heavy armour users.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:44 am

It's not like light armor creation is the only curiosity in the smithing tree. To gain access to all the heavy armors a blacksmith has to dip into the light armor side of the tree. And if you plan to always have the best weapon available at any given tier, you need access to the entire smithing tree.

That said, I feel the tree could have been set up better. I think it's silly that (on the heavy armor side) blacksmiths gain access to daedric armor before being able to create the inferior dragonplate armor (even if the dragonplate armor ingredients are easier to obtain). There should definitely be more linking between the two sides.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:28 pm

It's not like light armor creation is the only curiosity in the smithing tree. To gain access to all the heavy armors a blacksmith has to dip into the light armor side of the tree. And if you plan to always have the best weapon available at any given tier, you need access to the entire smithing tree.

That said, I feel the tree could have been set up better. I think it's silly that (on the heavy armor side) blacksmiths gain access to daedric armor before being able to create the inferior dragonplate armor (even if the dragonplate armor ingredients are easier to obtain). There should definitely be more linking between the two sides.

If it's done that way then the smithing perk tree becomes boring. I like it this way. Now there's an actual choice when you go heavy armour between the left and right side. The right side gives the best end game armour and dwarven for a cool early upgrade. The left side gives stronger mid game weapons and a level 50 smithing set that's easy to get the materials for (steel plate) and requiring one perk less to get to dragonplate armour.

Also the reason for dragonplate being a 100 smithing perk is probably because the ingredients for it are rather easy to get especially if you're doing the main quest. Daedric armour needs ebony and daedra hearts, which are quite rare. I myself actually skipped daedric armour altogether and went for dragonplate. That left my materials to be used for daedric weaponry.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:08 am

Let me just start of buy saying that being able to smith dragon armor is the end goal when it comes to smithing.

we also know that daedric weapons are the strongest craftable weapons as well.

Now, my point is, why in the bloody hell cant i go from making dragon armor down to daedric armor when both points connect? im at 100 smith skill yet i have to start off again at the bottom and go through dwarven orc and ebony just to get to daedric, just because i decided to make.

If you dont understand go take a look at the smithing tree in-game, you cant go from dragon down to glass or dragon down to daedric, even though your skill is beyond the requirement and the paths connect.

WTF, this makes one side of the whole smithing tree useless as the further in the game you get the more useless those previous armor and weapons become.. i eman what, do they expect you to stick with glass weapons with dragon armor if you decide to be a light armor smith?

FYI weapons/armor you create and hone yourself are stronger than the ones you find lying around

I lol'd at the idiocy in this post. You can't go backwards in ANY of the perk trees in Skyrim. Why would smithing be any different?

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:09 pm

one side's light armor one's heavy
pick one
not exactly rocket surgery
and how is light armor automatically useless because it doesn't have the highest armor stat?
you're able to move faster, it weighs less and there's the cool 50% stamina regen perk

they're different and there really is no reason to be skilled at both
your light or heavy armor skill greatly influences the eventual armor rating (you can easily reach the cap with both)
wearing armor you're not skilled in or leveling a skill you're not going to use
now that would be useless

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:11 am

Again;

- Light armor can reach the armor cap.
- Spending more perks in the armor trees than what you need to reach the cap is generally a waste (1-5 points depending on armor type and crafting skills).
- Chillrend (1h sword) does more damage fully improved than a fully improved daedric 1h sword, but only if you have glass smithing.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:13 am

Elven and Glass weapons are better than Orcish and such, so on your way to ebony you can unlock those armor types for better weapons. A "flawless" elven mace has a higher damage rating than the Mace of Molag Bal.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:20 pm

Glass weapons aren't that much weaker than daedric, plus the best 1h weapon in the game is a glass sword called Chillrend, which is stronger than a daedric sword, it also has paralyze + 30 frost damage enchantments. You could beat that with a daedric weapon using damage enchantments, but in terms of pure damage Chillrend is the best.

Glass armor is also similar in strength to dragonscale. Glass armor looks okay, apart from the helmet, which is why I wear a hood and the rest glass armor.

Its also less perks to do this for a light armor character, I think its 2 more if you wanted to go the daedric then dragon route.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:48 pm

People should really check out mods and see whats there already to suit your playstyle. There is a mod that lets you skip perks and move on to higher tier ones in the tree so long as you meet the other requirements. So with your 100 armorsmithing you could do all of the light side and just take daedra for the bows, being a single player game I don't consider that to be overpowered or 'unbalanced'. I use that mod I DLed from nexus.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:46 pm

People should really check out mods and see whats there already to suit your playstyle. There is a mod that lets you skip perks and move on to higher tier ones in the tree so long as you meet the other requirements. So with your 100 armorsmithing you could do all of the light side and just take daedra for the bows, being a single player game I don't consider that to be overpowered or 'unbalanced'. I use that mod I DLed from nexus.

People really should stop posting that mods can solve all problems when a large amount of players have no acces to them. :wink_smile:

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:42 am

People really should stop posting that mods can solve all problems when a large amount of players have no acces to them. :wink_smile:

He did not say if he was on a console so I assume he is on a PC, if you get offended that some cant get mods, well grow thicker skin. :whistling:

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:09 pm

Glass weapons aren't that much weaker than daedric, plus the best 1h weapon in the game is a glass sword called Chillrend, which is stronger than a daedric sword, it also has paralyze + 30 frost damage enchantments. You could beat that with a daedric weapon using damage enchantments, but in terms of pure damage Chillrend is the best.

Glass armor is also similar in strength to dragonscale. Glass armor looks okay, apart from the helmet, which is why I wear a hood and the rest glass armor.

Its also less perks to do this for a light armor character, I think its 2 more if you wanted to go the daedric then dragon route.

This is not true. Daedric is superior for the sole purpose that it is NOT enchanted and allows use of elemental fury. You can also skip arcane blacksmith as it's unnecessary.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:03 am

Its not a circle its two branches that connect at the top. The point is just that you are able to make dragon armor whether you went light or heavy.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:49 am

Now, my point is, why in the bloody hell cant i go from making dragon armor down to daedric armor when both points connect? im at 100 smith skill yet i have to start off again at the bottom and go through dwarven orc and ebony just to get to daedric, just because i decided to make.

If you dont understand go take a look at the smithing tree in-game, you cant go from dragon down to glass or dragon down to daedric, even though your skill is beyond the requirement and the paths connect.

WTF, this makes one side of the whole smithing tree useless as the further in the game you get the more useless those previous armor and weapons become.. i eman what, do they expect you to stick with glass weapons with dragon armor if you decide to be a light armor smith?

We had a fairly heated discussion on this topic a little bit ago http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1293778-smithing-perk-tree-is-just-plain-stupid/

Basically, I don't think light armor side of the tree is useless, far from it. I love the way glass weapons look personally, also, creating light steal armor is really great IMO.

About not being able to go from Dragon to Daedric I say this, why would you be able to smith the top tier heavy weapons/armor without learning the tiers below? Especially when Daedric is nothing more than ebony with a Daedra heart And before you say "Dragon is the top tier but I can make that". Yes that is correct but the difference is you become proficient in making armor from dragon remains with that perk.

So I gotta ask, do you think the same thing about the Block skill tree? What about Enchanting? Illusion? Archery?

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:51 pm

This is not true. Daedric is superior for the sole purpose that it is NOT enchanted and allows use of elemental fury. You can also skip arcane blacksmith as it's unnecessary.

I would prefer enchanted items than fast fury of attacks every minute. I like arcane blacksmith so I can improve nightingale armor past the armor cap, also chillrend and other strong enchanted items. I went for the glass route to save on 2 perks and glass weapons are only slightly weaker than daedric, those perks can make me do more damage anyway.

You can also not enchant glass swords and use elemental fury to.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:51 pm

Grasshopper, you need to acquire the base skills before you can fly.
Wax on,
Wax off.

:)

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:28 pm

Also the reason for dragonplate being a 100 smithing perk is probably because the ingredients for it are rather easy to get especially if you're doing the main quest. Daedric armour needs ebony and daedra hearts, which are quite rare. I myself actually skipped daedric armour altogether and went for dragonplate. That left my materials to be used for daedric weaponry.

The problem with dragonplate requiring 100 skill and being the inferior armor to daedric (which requires 90), is that it adds in (what should be unnecessary) grinding to reach dragonplate. If dragonplate required 90 skill and daedric required 100 instead, you would earn smithing points towards daedric simply by crafting out you a suit of dragonplate (which you're likely going to wear for at least a little while). And that, to me, is more appealing and makes more sense than expecting the player to grind out a ton of extra iron daggers just to move from 90 to 100 to make dragonplate. At least the trip from 80 to 90 is softened by creating ebony armor, but it's not nearly enough to move you from 80 to 100 - and that's a trip you have to make if you want to produce dragonplate. There's already a huge grind from 50-80.