My character is an elf, and the stormcloaks seem to be against elves and stuff but yea, at least they didn't try to cut your head of. So I side with the stormcloaks. Just because.

Well, if the Stormcloaks do win the war, and you aren't a Thalmor agent yourself, any Thalmor plans for Skyrim go out the window: A bunch of stuck-up elves can't do much against the might of two extremely proficient Thu'um users riding the crest of a Morale High from such a victory over their previous foe.

Erm what? The Empire only held out against the Thalmor because of the support of the other provinces, the thalmor's plan is to take Hammerfeld and the Imperial province, however they'll almost certainly not stop there and so without the support of Skyrim it's likely the Thalmor will pounce all over the provinces and be unmatched by skyrim. Also I think you're forgetting that there is only one extremely proficient Thu'um user in this case since the other is a spy and betrays going to the Thalmor side =P.

The Altmer Thalmor seem like they want to rule over the "lesser races" like the Ayleids did before them; Relatives of Umbacano perhaps.

Empire. Many people like to forget it's the only thing that keeps the Thalmor from walking all over Tamriel and its people.

Unite and push those High Elves back into the sea where they came from!


Ulfric knows only one shout to my knowledge. The only proficient Thu'um user would be the Dragonborn, who sides with the Empire in my game. :disguise:

Well..

Stromcloak:
1) Ulfric is just in it for the power
2) he doesnt trust ANYBODY who isnt a nord
3) if somebody is in trouble and isnt a nord he just ignores them e.g. there is a story about a khajiit caravan group that got attacked just outside of windhelm and ulfric did nothing but when a nord group of travellers got attacked he sent his army
4) If he could have it his way, he would kick anybody who isnt a nord out of skyrim
5) he killed the high king just to prove a point

Legion:
1) They want whats best for all of tamriel and wish things could be better in skyrim
2) They allow the thalmor to ban talos worship and let the thalmor drag people who worship talos but they really hate the thalmor and would kill them if it didnt end up in a war
3) Legion armor looks better imo
4) Once you complete the legion storyline they start making things better for the dark elves in windhelm by planning to rebuild and improve living conditions
5) They treat every race equally
6) Doesnt replace all the jarls of each city with nords who are racist to every other race

I have done a playthrough doing the stormcloak and one doing the legion questline and think the legion turns out better and is a better choice morally.

Based on your tastes. I went Stormcloak because I believed it to be a fast, effective, and great way to protect my character's homeland of Skyrim. But again, it's based on your own views.

Stormcloaks are a fast and effective way to drive the Thalmor out. However, on the flip side, it severely weakens the Empire and keeps them from liberating other provinces of Tamriel. Contrary to the stuff said by Empire supporters, Skyrim will stand against a Thalmor invasion very easily. Stormcloaks are hardy and strong warriors with a very intelligent leader behind them. Not to mention the landscape of Skyrim is perfect for guerrilla ambush and cutting morale of the enemy.

Ulfric himself is a fairly good leader. Again, contrary to popular belief, Ulfric isn't as racist as people say. Yes, he does want Nords to control Skyrim but of course Nords should control Skyrim. It's their homeland. Not to mention Ulfric did give the Dumner houses in Windhelm. Nowhere does it say that Ulfric purposefully made a slum area for the Dumner. Most likely, it was just a part of the city that Ulfric gave to the Dumner and the citizens made it into a slum. Ulfric of course, can't do anything about it considering there's a war to be fought.

As for justification of this war...yeah, it's a good enough cause. Nords and Imperials alike fought in the Great War and during the Red Ring battle, both the Thalmor and the Legion were destroyed. Now, Titus has the Thalmor retreating. What does he do? Sign over the Empire to a force that's just as weak as them. That's the logical equivalent of you and another person fist fighting and when both of you are downed, you slit your own throat.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now for the Empire...

Empire is no longer the Empire from Oblivion. It's weaker and dying. However, the Empire still has a foothold in many of the provinces and if Skyrim was under Empire control again, they'd have an easier time destroying the Thalmor. Not to mention the Empire provides a way to liberate all of Tamriel from the Thalmor threat. However, on the flip side, there's no guarantee that the Empire would do that and even so, there's no guarantee that they'll succeed.

Tullius seems to also be a level headed thinker from the Peace Treaty. He isn't as aggressive of a military commander as Ulfric and definitely not strong in battle but Tullius does seem to be on equal footing with Ulfric. Maybe even better considering it was Tullius who captured Ulfric in the beginning of the game. However, Tullius really does seem like a Thalmor sympathizer since he himself restricts Legate Rikke from any worship of Talos as seen when you kill Ulfric.

Justification? Yeah, Empire is also justified somewhat. They are not however, good people. Corruption is ripe throughout the entire place but the justification of keeping Skyrim under Empire control makes sense. Many in the Empire wishes to see the Thalmor destroyed and Skyrim's Civil War is hurting the Empire's endeavor to do this. However, again, Stormcloaks are 100% guaranteed to fight the Thalmor and has a high chance of defeating them while the Empire doesn't have either qualities.

Ulfric is a Thalmor puppet who is just softening up the Empire so they can be completely annihilated.

The Empire needs to stamp out these silly rebellions and gather it's strength, bide it's time and eventually fight the Aldmeri Dominion again.

You haven't paid much attention during the Legion story-line then. :wink_smile:
Otherwise you would know that Tullius actually despises Thalmor, the White-Gold Concordat (for the whole banning stuff, same trait he shares with Ulfric) and even

He's also the first one who tells you they will now shift their focus towards the Dominion, after you stomp those pesky rebels to dust.

No true elderscrolls fan will not play both sides. I chose stormcloaks for my first play through, and will do the empire on my next. At the end it didn't feel as glorious as I had hoped, as some information you get at the end kind of takes the wind out of the stormcloaks sails IMHO.

The problem is the Thalmor. The war should be against them. Should be an option to take them out.

If you kick out Elewen and Ulfric gets Markarth, he says "I'm disappointed in you Dragonborn"

If you don't and Ulfric gets Markarth, he says "I don't blame you Dragonborn"

The weapon used in his death isn't what makes it honorable. It was the manner in which he beat him. He challenged him to one on one combat and used the powers he had at his disposal. I don't see it as dishonor; anyone can train with the Greybeards and use The Voice.

He shouted him to the ground and finished him off with a dagger. Torygg was but a child, the youngest of all High Kings in the history of Skyrim. Ulfric has a point that if the kid couldn't even defend himself, he didn't really seem fit to defend an entire kingdom.

No where in the game do you get a sense that Torygg would have united the people of Skyrim against the Thalmor. Even going through the entire Imperial side of the quest line.

No one is "wrong" in this portion of the story. Both sides have good reasons to be doing what they are doing. However, in the case of the Imperials, again even if you do their side of the civil war, everything points to the Concordant being a ruse. It wasn't signed to save lives. The Emperor and his council basically sold the people out.

If you talk to people in the blue palace they say that Torygg was impressed by Ulfric and would have followed him into a rebellion if he had asked.

Stormcloak
1. wanting power ≠ wanting only power
2. he trusts the Dragonborn
3. true for the most part
4. bs
5. he was trying to prove that Torygg did not live up to the Nordic expectation of leadership





-he killed him with a sword
-Torygg was not a child, just young (probably early 20s)

Give it time, Bethesda was never going to give us a game where you save the world from dragons, greatly influence the outcome of a civil way and topple another world power.

I'd say they are building to a more Thalmor centric storyline, considering the growth of their influence in the world from Oblivion to Skyrim.



Wait, if both are downed, one wouldn't have the other retreating, at least not by a significant margin. As I understood it anyway the Thalmor were still is a somewhat stronger position, which is why the Empire accepted the treaty even though they had a bad feeling about it - it gave them a chance to regroup and rebuild and get ready for round two.



If he is a Thalmor sympathizer he is good at hiding it, since he really comes off as being quite against them and fully prepared to fight them in the next war he believes is coming. Of course he is loyal to the Empire and the laws which includes that which the Empire agreed to with the Thalmor, so it probably wouldn't do to have Rikke be seen disobeying them.



I think the Empire mainly wants to fight if they have a chance to win and want to buy time till that is possible. Not sure why Skyrim alone (and under Ulfric probably not going to well utilyze the potential of non-Nord races) is going to do better against the Aldmeri Dominion then an entire united Empire.

Siding with the Empire is probably the only solution for defeating the Thalmor and Aldmeri Dominion, since if the Stormcloaks take over both Skyrim and the Imperial Legion will be highly weakened + a probably post-civilwar Skyrim/Empire conflicts that will only serve the Dominion by weakening both further.

Ulfric didn't give the Grey Quarter to the dark elves in fact he wasn't even born when they fled from Morrowind. Red Mountain erupted in 4E 40s when the game takes place in 4E 201. Ulfric didn't make the slum he however doesn't do crap to help either the dark elves or the argonians who aren't even allowed into the city. He also doesn't care if any races, besides nords, are attacked by bandits.

Think about it. If the Stormcloaks drive the Empire out of Skyrim, what is that really doing for the people? It doesn't change much. The Empire doesn't give a damn if you worship Talos, or anything the White-Gold Concordat banished. They're just "Agreeing" to it to please the Thalmor. The Empire is in a weakened state, and at any moment they could be destroyed by the Thalmor. They're biding their time, to gain strength and make another push on them. The Empire hates the Thalmor, especially Tullius. Driving the Empire out of Skyrim would only ensure Skyrim's inevitable loss to the Elves in the inevitable war with them that is to come. The rebellion is exactly what the Thalmor wanted. They wanted the Empire to be weakened by the Stormcloaks. They specifically allowed Ulfric to remain in power as Jarl and start the whole damn thing to further their own interests in taking over the Empire.

I was legion in my last game because I was drumner and the stormcloaks are racist against them. I dont know about this game with my Breten. I tend to side with the rebels but I have to consider their positions more before I decide

:D

Follow your heart. Ulfric is a distasteful man but the cause is just. However the Empire is the best direction to keep history from being "More usurping, more ruling, couple decades of peace and then more war and disagreement with a hint of in fighting until civil war breaks out -again-."

Think about it this way, why are the empire in Skyrim? Because they got but hurt that Skyrim no longer wanted to be part of an empire that turns it's back on it's allies, no worse, sells them out. And then the people of Hammerfell fight the thalmor to a stand still WITHOUT the empire. And so in a time when their resources are stretched to the limit and diminished after the great war they decide that fighting for control of Skyrim is a good way to gather their strength for the future war. Let this festering corpse of a once great empire rot alone while those with the spirit to stand up and fight bring the war to the thalmor!

I must have missed that. I still got the impression that he doesn't exactly fancy the Dominion and all that.


Agreed. :thumbsup:


Stabbed him after using a Thu'um. Like I said before, that's akin to using a flashbang in a swordfight(haha, this is going to be my catchphrase :biggrin: )
Not much honourbale given it was a traditional duel for the throne, so no wonder most people in Skyrim say he murdered him.