Is it possible for Beth to bring this back as a skill(as some form of dlc)? It was probably my favorite in Oblivion and was the character I spent most time on. Also since using your fists have kill animations, why wouldn't they?

i hope so.
i love hand to hand combat.
really fun in oblivion

Yeah, H2H has been ruined IMO. Needs to be its own skill with its own perks. Not one, impractical Heavy Armor perk.

I found it bizarre how they went to all the effort to finally give unarmed hits something like the finishers, yet only now removed the skill that they originally relied on to get stronger.

Exactly, they [censored] up alot of [censored] with this game. Even though it's awesome.

Meh, h2h in all TES games has been pretty lame. Fallout:NV had the best system by far, where at least you could counter and use a couple other cool semi-legitimate moves such as the superman punch, or throwing dirt in your opponent's eyes. I found the takedown awful though.

Preferably, a simple H2h system in a game like this would enable the player to throw straight punches, and throw hooks by holding the button for a second; it would allow the use of blocking (which has been hugely overlooked, and should have been implemented by pressing L+R together rather than a sloppy combo) and it should have at least one grappling-based takedown such as a double-leg or footsweep; both of which would not be sickening to see from a first person perspective. I have no problem with the system remaining kick-free for the sake of simplicity, but there is no point in beinging back h2h as a skill if the implementation of first-fighting remains poor.

..and yeah I totally agree that if you sneak attack someone while unarmed it should lead to a rear naked choke.

It still felt awesome destroying the entire city guard with just my fists.

I particularly liked H2H because it was a nice alternative than carrying a blade around for an archer type.

its not that bad if you think bout it, you get the armor rating in damage (and the base perk improves your armor IE dmg rating) Only problem is any aditional perks like the heavy hit bonuses (although on the bright side you can never be disarmed... then agian)

It's not necessarily the damage rating which is the issue, but that you sacrifice a huge amount of damage while having no defence unless you use a shield, which entirely defeats the point.

The H2H system should have its own skill tree, with perks which give up to a 20% chance to avoid a hit while unarmed (could stack to 30% with the light armour tree), a chance of an instant KO (would make enemy unconscious, not dead), speed increase on unarmed attacks, and the ability to silently choke out enemies faster. With a few other minor damage increases through perks that would make unarmed combat a viable system without being overpowered; your damage output is still very low compared to weapons, but your survivability would be FAR higher.

EDIT: another cool perk idea would be a small chance of disarming the enemy if you block at the right time..

I honestly thought this game would have a perk tree for hand-to-hand or at least some way to improve it. As it is the only thing I've figured out how to do with hand-to-hand is hit with the right fist, hit with the left fist, hit harder, or a hard attack with both fists. :confused: Plus they look like seriously amateur punches IMO.

Well, they're just wild swings really, which is odd considering the stance your character takes in hand to hand combat is a decent enough boxing stance; hands up and chin tucked with feet in a decent position for balance. It'd be better if the regular fist attack was a straight punch unless you held the button down, which would cause the PC to throw a hook.

Yes except hook punches don't always have more power than straights. Maybe it would be better if the controls were different, like one button attack, and the other button could block or even do something else. I'm still surprised with the way it turned out. I remember before the game was released they said there was someone who does real fighting working on the combat system.

ofc hopefully with the dlc they wil bring more spells back hand to hand perks acrobatics perks and vampire / warewolf perks

Combat: Hand to Hand
Magic: Mysticism
Stealth: Movementbased/Athletics/Acrobatics-like skill

Those are the ones they should add as skills, and add all the spells the magic schools lost. Then I might consider buying it as DLC.

Move H2H into the athletics/acrobatics skill (since they're all pretty focused around the martial art of physical fitness) and make the new combat skill Spear. We may as well try to maximize the number of things we get back from previous ES titles if we have to pay for it as a DLC

i hope they do bring it back as a skill in some dlc my longest running character in oblivion was an orc monk called Korgan gro-Arod i miss hand to hand being an effective combat skill.

The post I made doesn't suggest that. although for most people hooks are generally more powerful, or at least more damaging by virtue of the fact they often land unseen.

The best way to have full control over the fists is to have the one button per fist that Skyrim currently has, but drop the lame combo and make holding both buttons a block, it's that simple. If they really wanted to spice things up they could make directional buttons while blocking lead to head movement, but in this game I see no need for it.

And if somebody who does 'real fighting' was working on the combat system, it was only on the basic stance that they had any input; I mean, it's not my personal stance when I'm boxing, but it's a solid stance nontheless. The punches though are just frikkin poor, and what is the point in standing in a stance like that, where your chin is tucked and your hands are up if you're simply going to allow the enemy to punch you with absolutely no defence whatsoever?

I would love that it becomes a skill of it's own since unarmed combat is my favorite.
Still, if a whole skill is too much to ask, I at least hope that they will make unarmed count as one-handed weapon and, in case it doesn't, make Elemental Fury work on unarmed.
I would also like to see Unarmored make a return as a skill and that it haves some Athletics/Acrobatics-like perks.
Here is an idea how Unarmored perks could look like:
- Stoneskin - 5 ranks (Req: 0/20/40/60/80 Unarmored) - Gives 10/20/30/40/50 AR.
- Steelskin - 1 rank (Req: 30 Unarmored, Stoneskin) - provides 50% additional AR if fully unarmored.
- Athlete - 1 rank (Req: 50 Unarmored, Steelskin) - Movement speed increased by 50% if fully unarmored.
- Vitality - 2 ranks (Req: 70/90 Unarmored, Athlete) (Req: - Increased HP & SP regeneration by 25/50%.
- Acrobat - 1 rank (Req: 50 Unarmored, Steelskin) - Jump improved by 50% if fully unarmored.
- Cat Feet - 2 ranks (Req: 70/90 Unarmored, Acrobat) - Fall damage reduced by 25/50%.
- Waterlike - 1 rank (Req: 100 Unarmored, Athlete or Acrobat) - 10% chance to avoid melee and range damage.

This would be an extra skill for Thief branch.
Still, I think that in this case Unarmed can get a skill of it's own as a skill in Warrior branch.
I have no idea what could be an extra skill for Mage branch though.
Maybe they can overhaul magic and return Mysticsm (that would be nice).
Ether that or give an additional skill called Spellcraft (basically it would allow you to make custom spells like you could in previous games, but it would be a skill instead of service).

Also, they should make some clothes which can be used by monk-like characters.

I think that this, together with HC mode (http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1301869-hc-mode/page__p__19597491__fromsearch__1#entry19597491 my thread on it) and improved vampires and lycanthropes (http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1301861-vampirism-lycanthropy/page__p__19597285__fromsearch__1#entry19597285 my thread on them), would make a wonderful DLC! ^_^
Also, if they make underwater world richer wouldn't hurt (http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1301899-aquatic-life-is-bad/page__p__19597640__fromsearch__1#entry19597640).
Now those would be some thing which would improve Skyrim greatly!

Normally holding down the button is supposed to do a power attack.


I also don't see a need for head movement. I'm not sure if having a separate button per punch is needed but whatever works.


I agree. I still haven't played this game much BTW.

Of course the alternative is to make the PC throw a hook or straight depending on their distance from the target. Personally I think that would be better, although I see no need for a 'power' attack as such considering that wild swings are often less powerful than a crisp technique. The idea of unarmed power attacks being slow is largely based on falsehood for the sake of balancing. I can however see how a weapon power attack would be slower, as it may well require the weapon to be lifted higher for a more powerful stroke.



Neither do I, it is completely unnecessary considering Bethesda's hit detection seems to hit you no matter what anyway; it's just something I've seen done in other games.