I'm using a no-magic character and thought that perhaps I should start to use Smiting and invest perks into it. But..

If I forge an armor, it won't have any stats, right? Except "armor". Unlike looted or bought armor. So I would need Enchanting, otherwise forged armor is *weaker* than the one I can buy/loot, since bonuses are quite huge.


I wanted to avoid Enchanting so that my character doesn't become too powerful which isn't that fun. But I don't think I'll find Markath Guard armor or Dragonscale with actual bonuses as a loot..


If there some NPC perhaps to whom I can pay a lot of money and then he enchants?

Anyone?

That is correct, but a 100 smithing skill upgraded daedric sword's damage will still come out higher than if you were using one you found on the ground with only a few random +1h damage items. Especially since you can still find and use +smithing items randomly to use during the upgrading process. Stacked with blacksmith potions you find and you will still have the best weapon you can possibly have. The problem with world generated loot that i've seen is there are too few double effect pieces which is really what makes enchanting incredibly good. Smithing is still worth it, hell i went with smithing/enchanting (very light on enchanting though) and i'm sitting on 11 unused perks at level 47 because i only do combat with 1h/shield and light armor. The perk investment required really isn't a big deal unless you play a very unfocused character.

You can still enchant your armor with no enchanting perks, it will just be weaker.

nvm, misunderstood your post.

Smithed armor will never have any kind of enchantment unless you put it there or find an enchanted piece and the make it better through smithing.

Oh, didn't know that, thanks. Although, with Enchanting the enchantments would be 250% stronger for skill enchants (100%, 25%, double).





I intend to have one character because of time restrictions and unwillingness to do the same quests again. Am around lvl30 now, got all basic perks I wanted, and need to make a plan for last 20 levels (or a bit more).

It's not that I have a shortage of perks right now, it's just that Smiting would require investment into other areas too, namely, light armor, and possibly enchanting, and then I kinda run out of perks fast. Let me show you the core that I currently have (a combination of efficiency and RP):


1. Alchemy (11 perks, all except Experimenter and Purity; so far I don't need Purity).
2. Pickpocket (4 perks, to include Poisoned and Extra Pockets - Poisoned because of assassination style mostly in towns, and Pockets really really make gameplay easier)
3. Sneak (7 points; I don't need more than 1/5 in first perk, and I'm not yet sure whether I'll get Shadow Warrior and Assassin's Blade - probably, but I don't seem to need them right now)
4. Archery (5 points, only in Overdraw)

All in Health. No Stamina or Magicka so far.


As you can see, the core is quite focused. 27/50 perks used. And now I need to decide what to do with the other points.


Candidates:

a ) As bow is my primary weapon, you might ask why I didn't invest more into archery. The reason being that Critical Shot did not seem that spectacular. I dislike "luck" skills. Overkill matters too, if I use a poison and critical hit occurs, I probably did overkill, so in reality the increase in damage will be less than theoretical... 30% I believe. Other Archery perks seem to have anti-synergy as well. Stagger doesn't matter with Paralysis and vice versa, especially when I decide to use a potion. But Stagger might be good with +30% faster firing rate, if it allows me to hit someone x2 before I have to run for cover. Unfortunately I need to test this via console.

b ) Light Armor + Smiting + Enchanting for Dragonscale. It's the only armor I can visually tolerate, minus the helmet which I'll have to replace with some I like better. Yes, I've been fighting in clothes so far and with stealth it's not a problem. I've tested armor with console a bit and a guy with two-handed weapon can take half of my health in a single hit - when I wear generic heavy armor. It doesn't save me, just wastes my potions.. But I'm considering this because if I use only one character I'll probably want to play more with followers and not always solo, and if I'm not solo stealth isn't my armor.
I suppose I don't have to use Enchanting but I'm going to feel so crippled.

c ) Other. No idea, I've experimented with 2H, 1H+shield, dual wield.. but Master difficulty quickly shows the weakness of "trading for hits" battle style. Perhaps I'm missing something, but melee in this game really does turn into hit exchange. It just lacks tactic. Melee in Mount&Blade is much much better (as is horse riding). At least sneaking around and ambushing NPCs is more.. atmospheric and immersive.

d ) Necromancy. I really wanted to enjoy this side of the Conjuration tree but it has so many problems.. namely, anti-synergy with a stealth char but even without that, the fact minions don't follow you through door, their too short duration (unless you're a Nord berserker they expire before you reach the next enemy unless you spend no time looting), and their bad AI (bodyblock me in narrow places, they get lost, they are slow to enter combat, they search for weapon..).



Tips are welcome.

Perking two crafting trees leads to unfun overpoweredness for most players. I applaud you for playing magicless and sticking to it.

You have an assassination-style build that aims to drop enemies before they get to you. Sounds like a blast.

Without any perks or much skill in smithing, you can still make yourself a powerful temporary-skill potion, put on +smithing gear you've found, and use workbench/grindstone to improve gear you've found a very significant amount. Especially your bow.

So the question is, do you want to continue perking Archery for more damage so stuff more often drops in one hit, Shadow Warrior so you can get out of combat when detected, or build up another way of surviving the things that don't drop?

Perfect archery doesn't sound like much fun to me. So I'd lean toward a strategy that gets distance for another shot. Block for a guaranteed stagger + slowing poison on the 1H weapon is one idea. Conjuring up a disposable Atronach to tank for you could be another. You might appreciate the time-slowing and staggering Archery perks for shooting an enemy that's trying to reach you. Those all sound fun to me.

Re: melee. Skyrim melee isn't just trading blows. You can move to dodge attacks, bash incoming power attacks, trick them into swinging at a place you don't plan to be. But still not what I'd recommend for you.

Play to your strength (Archery), but make yourself play well to survive dangerous situations, rather than removing all danger. (edit: to be clear, Smithing+Light Armor+Enchanting will remove all danger.)

When I roll a Warrior character, I plan to perk out Smithing but not touch Enchanting at all. The game already has some great pre-enchanted gear in it, and the Smithing tree has a perk that allows you to improve enchanted equipment. I'm gonna go that route and will still be incredibly powerful, I'm sure.

at Smithing 60 you can get a perk that lets you upgrade enchanted items. so if your worried about enchantments but don't want to invest in it, then just get that perk, and upgrade the enchanted gear.

If I understand your question, you don't need Enchanting unless you want everything to be insanely strong. Just crafting aand upgrading armor is enough for my warrior. I don't have a single perk on enchanting.

Totally agree with mattlistener.

Play the game for fun, with a particular character type in mind, and start new characters to do things that you miss. IMO, even on master, any 2 crafting skills is overpowered, so doing that takes all of the fun and strategy out of combat. Smithing by itself is powerful, but you will get items and potions that can provide a big bonus to it, so you don't have to invest in it (except maybe the enchanted perk), unless you want to.

Some people want to be invincible, and if that's your goal, then take perks in smithing and enchanting.

According to the wiki, my boots were 14 to start. Now 40 (flawless). The improvements are sweet.

I agree with having a warrior charater that uses little magic and enchanting. My character only uses enchanted armor for protection. Plus I have a chest at home filled with magical stuff that I am not using and don't want to sell.

The beauty of the Elder Scrolls games is that you can play them any whay that you want. If your character is having trouble, turn down the difficulity for a while. If your character is walking through opponents like they don't exist, turn up the difficulty. It is all up to you. :wink_smile:

Having both the Stagger and Paralyze perks from Archery is actually not redundant, despite appearing so.

1) They're different effects, so an opponent immune to one can still be affected by the other
2) They aren't automatically applied, so with both you have an additional chance per shot to disable the target

Having both has saved me multiple times, including a few where I got several staggers, followed by a paralyze that set up the kill shot, against a target that otherwise would have been a brutal fight.

With higher-end equipment the stagger does become less useful, since you start one-shotting a lot of targets, but it's still good to have when that Bandit boss whips out his +6 War Hammer of Crushing and tries to drive your head down between your shoulder blades.

I was interested in Smiting because I was under the impression that Dragonscale armor cannot be found as loot, or it would take extremely long time. But if I can buy this from shops after lvl50 or get from loot normally, then I don't care about putting perks into Smiting.



Joining College of Winterhold is messing with my immersion since I don't want to be a mage. Am I ever going to find some spell books elsewhere, as a loot or in shops, once I get to high level? Or can these books be bought only in Winterhold?

I bought Conjure Flame Atronach from one of the Jarls' wizards.

Not sure if dragonscale armor can be had from shops at high level. But it's not that much better than glass.

I should add that if you stick with just +smithing potions and items for improving gear, you'll end up having to decide between enchanted gear you find, gear you can improve, or grinding Smithing up to 60 so you can put two perks in to improve enchanted stuff. I don't recommend the latter (having succumbed to it). Hard choices are interesting.

I've yet to play a character that has maxed enchanting with any amount of perks points spent in the skill. Several pieces of my last's character's enchanted Ebony armor set where found in dungeons and not self made.

I'm doing a character very similar to yours though i'm pretending i've got a use magic item skill like in 3.5 D&D so i'm doing enchanting and such. If you're wanting to use light armor I'd suggest going up the heavy armor side of the smithing tree purely for the more powerful weapons. I found on a wiki that dragonscale has a better amor rating than glass armor so when you do get your dragon armor perk you'll be able to make its light armor and have the more powerful weapons at your disposal.