Runes that do low damage so you are better off not casting them? The stream spells don't really do it for me. Area around self? I would just do a touch spell with a wide area, achieves the same thing. Can even be done with a ranged attack to get the same effect with more versatility. All the new features in magic would have been perfect for spell making regardless. The new runes and stream spells would have actually been great with spell making. Wards could have easily been ok in spell making as well. I don't get why people keep arguing against spell making. Unless people can find factual reasons behind it, we are not going to back down.

Shackles? If anything there on now, not then.

They didnt "take away" anything. They make this game from scratch. Its not like they already had spell making implemented and for no good reason decided to take it out. This may not be a completely new engine, but they still have to program everything over again. I dont get why people do not understand that. They didnt TAKE things away, this is not an Oblivion expansion pack. Its an entirely new game based on a franchise.

Spellmaking existed since Arena, yet you seem to think they didn't remove it from the TES series.
I'll give you an example:
If nintendo make a zelda without Link,(thus "taking him away" that would be ok for you since it was programmed from scratch?

Even a simple one-effect spell-maker would be fine, like the enchanter's table, where the only thing you get to decide is the "magicka ----> potency" variables.

One single effect per spell, and limit some spells to certain effects.

Invisibility on self / target.

Rune of Paralysis.

Frost explosion (fireball)

Heck, even being allowed to make my own fireball that deals more damage than my bow!

Oh.
And 100% reduced spell costs just need to go.
Seriously.
Even without spellmaking, they're just absurd.

I would be fine with this over what we have now.

Yeah I have been saying the same thing. Sure I'd prefer multiple effects but a single effect spell making would allow me to fill the huge gaps in the spell list. Though I also want a crap ton of effects to make a return, I see no reason why effects that are in the game already can't be returned to magic.

It amazes me how some people justify no spell creation. Having both these new spell delivery methods (streaming, runes, etc.) are NOT mutually exclusive with spell making. It isn't like we are forced to choose between one or the other, we could have both, and we should have both.

No spell creation combined with the fact that tons of spells have been removed since Morrowind and Oblivion has made magic in Skyrim crap.

me personally, yes. If Nintendo made a new Zelda game without link..it would be just that. A new Zelda game with a different protagonist. I seriously dont see what the big problem would be unless the new character was unlikable (like Raiden in MGS2) [censored] become too attached sometimes. Why not cry about every cool RPG feature youve ever experienced being misssing from Skyrim??? Why? because its a different game.

My point on them not "taking out" spell making is that this is a NEW game. They didnt ADD spell making and maybe they have their reasons, time, balance issues, effort =/= payoff, etc. I would like spell making in, but i dont see it as this great loss ass if there arent a ton of other things to do. i'd be happy of they added it later, but my game experience is not soured by not having it.

To be honest, I've always felt that 90% of the spells designed by Bethesda were crap. Since Daggerfall, the first thing any of my mages did was get access to a spellmaker and create new versions of those very spells that take into account the fragility of a robe-wearer.

Single target spells that hit with immense force but consume great deals of magicka.
Long-lasting DoTs that allow me to focus purely on evasion once cast.
A long-duration waterbreathing to allow me to really explore underwater.
Some kind of defensive spell (which was usually a low-power, long duration levitate, until they took that away) to let me get past overwhelming force.
A regeneration spell that lasted long enough to count as something other than just a spot-heal.
A touch-based Absorb Health of extreme potency for those moments when stuck in close quarters.

I was never a fan of 100% chameleon, or doing the Weakness/Drain/Damage romp. But I did always feel that Bethesda's spells were...feeble. They just didn't do their job well enough. The duration spells were always too short-lived. The burst-damage spells didn't have enough power to deal with the constantly increasing health of the scaling enemies.

One thing about spells hasn't changed. I still think Bethesda's spells aren't very good. Especially after I was forced to stunlock an enemy caster (Morokei) because he one-shotted me with every spell he cast, but I could barely chip away at his health at all. And doing it that way, I had to refill my magicka 3 times to finish him (was level 21, with about 420 magicka, and 17% cost reduction on destruction spells, only had 110 hp). With a spellmaker, I would have still spent the same amount of magicka, most likely. However, I probably would have only cast 6 spells, and the fight would have been decided in less than a minute, instead of that long, drawn-out stunlock grind.

Sadly, that seems to be the case. That's even more true now with regenerating health. It's a sad thing. But Bethesda isn't the only company guilty of that. Red Storm Entertainment, Ubisoft, Gearbox, even Bioware.




Hey... there's no need to personally insult Bleak like that! ;-P




So, you're one person who could actually agree that Skyrim could have just as easily been titled "Fable 4"?




Do you agree with what Bioware did to the Dragon Age series? It went from Classical RPG to Action RPG.

It's not just spellmaking that got the axe. It is only one of numerous cuts from earlier TES games. The problem isn't so much the loss of one feature. It's the consistent degradation from one title in the series to the next. When you have a successful formula, you keep it and improve upon it. You do not completely rewrite the entire system. That's what you're implying when you say they started from scratch. In all honesty, that is an idiotic and illogical procedure if they did so. As I said earlier in this thread (I think), that is like reinventing the wheel. It serves no purpose whatsoever. It's like trying to rewrite the Bible from memory. You're bound to lose something VERY important along the way.

I agree to a degree, but I don't feel it's crap. It's lacking in some areas, yes, but still pretty cool overall. Spell making has always been a great part of the ES saga, and we mages want it back. If you didn't like it, don't use it, but I simply don't understand its removal. It wasn't hurting anything. It's not an MMO, let me be creative.

Note: Didn't read past this before posting.

Chuckling here at work. Love the Dr. Who refrence.

Seriously? Game balance? Have you learned enchanting and smithing for a warrior yet?

Even at level 50 in each I made a suit of armor and weapons that ruin everything.

Balance? Come on.