IMO, this is the biggest thing, dialogue wise, that needs improvement. I dont mind random NPCs not recognizing me and praising/taunting me for my quest deeds all across Skyrim, because honestly, thats not realistic. But the quote above, probably happens in 2 out of 3 forts or dungeons I explore. It always breaks immersion immediately then I force myself to act like it never happened.

I like Skyrim, I really do but for me its lost the "other world" feeling that Morrowind and Oblivion were able to accomplish. Skyrim is plagued with bugs, the AI is at times out of control, there are noticeable balancing issues with regard to difficulty and level progressing, etc. My biggest complaint that is what takes me out of this world the most is how I feel my hand is being held throughout all of the many many quests that this game has. I feel like every turn and corner has someone wanting something from you. That bothers me and doesn't create a realistic environment. I want to go searching for things to do, I don't things to do in every corner, that just takes exploration out the window. Morrowind and Oblivion had a pretty good balance of exploration and quests and I didn't feel like I was being told where to do and how to do it like Skyrim does. It's a great game that could have been greater but I think in the end it was somewhat rushed and they forgot how to truly transport someone into their world with Skyrim.

I don't think anyone expects perfection in this area but the way it is handled in Skyrim truly leaves much to be desired. I'm tired of being told that "if I've got the aptitude, I should join the Mages Guild in Winterhold" when I've been the archmage for ages and being mocked by guards for being the mead-fetched for the Companions when I'm the Harbringer

Even though this is just wrong I "roleplay" through it by thinking my arrows give the enemies a terminal brain damage.

Kind of reminds me of when maven black briar threatened to get the dark brotherhood on me even though I was the bloody listener. Or how everyone in the thieves guild disrespects me on a regular basis despite being leader of said dangerous assassins guild who just happened to murder the emperor. Kinda stupid, But I'm enjoying the game regardless.

This is the point I'm trying to make. This issue is so incredibly easy to fix that, if Beth is feeling generous, it can be fixed in a patch. I'm speaking from experience with previous TES construction kits, and Skyrim's engine is close enough to Oblivion's that it should be easy here, too.

So while I agree that yes, this is a problem, calling Beth lazy or even incompetent over this issue is patently ridiculous. They're working on an incredibly complex game here, and even with a large team these are the kinds of things that can very easily get through the cracks (again speaking from personal experience. Dialogue triggers can be a pain in the ass to QA). Instead of outright insulting them and berating them for making a terrible game, let's just send them a loud and clear message: Please fix this!


Except for the sneak AI. That stuff's just messed up, and I'm not counting on that being fixed any time soon. :sadvaultboy:

[Addendum]


I haven't done the DB questline yet, but...does your status as listener become public knowledge at some point?

I snipped the part where you RUINED the DB quest line for me... you idiot. Thanks for not putting that in spoiler tags.

Streamlining = need to hand-hold the new target audience (casual console gamers) and show them who's the good guys and who's the bad guys. Gone are the days of real choice and true consequences.

I was not part of the Skyrim dev team, so I could not possibly know what kind of schedule, conflicts, focus, management they had. It might not be entirely correct to assume that more of the dev's efforts went to graphics than dialogue. One probable reason FNV had a great NPC interaction was most likely influenced by the fact that its engine and mechanics were mostly established by Fall Out 3 already. They could afford to spend more time on the immersive dialogues. Skyrim most likely could not afford that same luxury.

The comparison with Oblivion, however, seems fair. They had roughly the same development time, and immersive dialogues in Skyrim not being on par with Oblivion does not show good progress (in the scripting aspect). Considering Skyrim's continuation of Oblivion's genre and gameplay, and the massive success of Oblivion, TES V should be equal or better on the dialogue aspect, since Oblivion already achieved this.

Posters who praise the reaction dialogues of NPCs to your unequipping armor and being naked need to realize that these triggers are VERY easy to accomplish. These do not depend on where you are in the story, quest, faction, or race. These dialogues are excellent touches, but they do not excuse the flaws of the bigger picture: it hurts the game much more when something as huge as finishing a major arc like DB has no impact on the citizens of Skyrim, or people randomly conjecturing that you are a dragonborn even though, besides escaping a dragon from Helgen, you have not learned Shouts or have anything to do with dragons whatsoever (remember Dragonborns have not been seen for hundreds of years, it's not something people wildly guess at).

You know that guy in Ivarstead who lost his sister? The one not exactly right in the head and speaks in a distinct voice, broken grammar? One random greeting of his was "My favorite drinking buddy! Let's get some mead," the same voice as the drunks from Riverwood, Whiterun, and heck every other town. Come on.

The "Thank you" quote is triggered when a summoned undead is killed, or sent back to Oblivion, thus gaining some form of peace. This trigger happens with allies or neutrals alike, from my experience of playing. It does not have anything to do with the stolen necklace. However, it's coincidences like these that make every player's experience unique.

So my 2-cent is... Bethesda made an excellent game. I can't blame them for the flaws of the dialogue, because I don't know if it was due to laziness. The flaw, however, is definitely there, and if you play long enough, you will notice it. You cannot deny there is no flaw, but you should not criticize the team of being incompetent, either, because you do not know what it's like to work on a game this massive, regardless of its 5 years development time. Many games (coughDarkVoidcough) show great promise but have fallen short because in our modern, instant information age, money relies on deadlines. 5 years for a game this big is probably not that long. What I know is, the game is overall good enough that I would not right out say they were lazy, even if it's about dialogue.

You know I can't recall if they actually reacted to you better in Morrowind after you finished the main quest or still called you 'outlander' constantly.

One of the best mods for Morrowind was one that just shut them up unless you stared at them a while, I'm pretty sure someone made that for Skyrim already. Just because I'm running past you doesn't mean you need to shout your life story at me.

In my game, I've been reacted to as Harbinger of the Companions, Dragonborn, slayer of so-and-so, and as a NAKED MAN! Bethesda did a fair enough job. That's just a little glitch.

Wait, what does this have to do with dialogue?

This has always been a problem for Beth.... Hell I'm more of a morrowind fan than both skyrim and oblivion put together, but you could sneak up to a group of people, and take one of them out with an arrow, and the others wouldn't have even noticed you did anything at all.

I think they are doing better in the smaller scales, (such as the dropping of armor and weapons, running around naked which seems to be fine in Cyrodiil, and other small quests and favours you do for single people are noticed)

So the attempt is there for sure, however I do agree with bigger scale things. If you are a hero, people should know you, and treat you differently as if as you were an assassin.

It's almost like the NPC's lack their own personalities and morals.

Except these aren't slight little loopholes. These are really blatant issues that are ****ing annoying. This game is far from perfect, I'd be reluctant to say it's even great.

People love complaining for something else, dialogues alone don't make 'em angry enough. It's the sauce they need to enjoy their wrath.

I agree, but it won't change. It never does. This is just how Bethesda rolls, I guess. :shrug:

I agree with the general reasoning of your post, but this just leave me with a dumbfounded look.
Oblivion wasn't really (or, to be more precise, "REALLY wasn't") famous for his "immersive dialogues", to say the least. In fact, save for the infamous level scaling debacle, Oblivion's MOST glaring FLAW was precisely the uninspired dialogues, which played a big role in the general "Disney feeling" of the game.
Saying it managed to improve on the dialogue, especially considering Morrowind was the previous title and is still by FAR the best one on this subject of the whole serie, is not really a point that will work to further your argument (which, I repeat, is otherwise sound).

I agree.

Some guy sent Hired Thugs to kill me.
I killed them, and went to him to see what he says.

Yet he acts completely normal, as if nothing happened.

Honestly if I had sent hired thugs to kill you and you came and talked to me, I'd probably act clueless too, haha.

wait...

at level 30 you never even killed the first dragon??

They prolly missed that in QA dude... chill out.

You're an exception to the rule....

I bet 90% of the players playing skyrim complete that first dragon quest within their first 15 levels (and that's a stretch prolly... 10 would cover most players I bet)

As for the Thalamor.... well.... there happens to be prophecies and dreams being held about you. Not that hard to imagine that perhaps they could have had a prophetic dream of your coming and are proactively trying to kill you. That hook is used in a lot of fantasy stories actually.

I haven't heard anything about Dragonborn and I went for awhile on this character without killing the first dragon. After 24 levels, no one has referred to me as Dragonborn or anything. The only thing I get is the occasional mention of Helgen being attacked. The Thalmor started to attack me, but after three characters I realized it was linked to my progress in eithee the Imperial or the Stormcloak questline. Which would make sense. They'd be pissed if I was tipping the scales, since they'd much prefer both sides to just grind each other down for them. The note they had didn't mention being dragonborn at all, it just mentioned that I was a danger to whatever they're trying to do.

lmao

So much truth. There really isn't any freedom in Skyrim. Hell, Oblivion had better freedom..

I play a warrior and I usually open up from stealth with an arrow if I could. I was in a cave and I shot this necromancer in the face and went behind the corner to avoid instant detection. After a few seconds, arrow protruding from his mouth, I hear "must've been the wind.." No. No it wasn't. It was me shooting that arrow that's sticking out of your head -_-