TESNexus as most people will know has a "Download With Manager" button

Mod Authors - Take note if you have not discovered this yet ...

Go to Manage Files, Edit File - You now have the option to check a box and disable the 'Download With Manager' option

For files which cannot really be handled with an evolution of OBMM / FOMM ( for instance Wrye Bash BAINs, and manual install archives which have un-usual folder structures... ) you can now stop people making a mess of their installations.

Spread the word folks

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Bit of a limited topic .. So if anyone wants to use this topic to discuss anything else NMM related - Feel free ( although I wont be monitoring it really, being a Wrye Bash nut I dont have any further interest in NMM at this time )

Hmm? Not sure if I understood... does the manager attempts to install the downloaded mod by itself?

Nexus Mod Manager can be used to download mods directly from Nexus by clicking the Download With Manager button (but fails to download and crashes more often than it succeeds in downloading, and sometimes claims that a file does not exist when it does and so cannot download - more reliable to download the mods manually, then add them to Nexus Mod Manager). Nexus Mod Manager cannot handle mod archives set up to install through BAIN from Wrye Bash, cannot install mod archives with special installation instructions (such as having multiple folder options to pick from), and as far as I know, cannot handle OMOD or FOMOD (or OMOD/FOMOD-ready) archives with installation scripts.
It can only handle straight-forward mods where the mod files are correctly packaged for a direct drag and drop of files into the Data folder without worrying about finding the correct subfolders yourself. It will also dump any files in the mod archive not relevant to the game into the Data folder, such as pictures, readmes, Thumbs.db etc. which want deleting to avoid over-cluttering and confusion.

So any mod which doesn't fall under the category of a straight-forward installation cannot be installed using Nexus Mod Manager. Mod authors of mods which cannot be installed using Nexus Mod Manager have an option to tick on their files which will remove the Download with Manager button from their files, so that mod users won't download with Nexus Mod Manager, screw up the installation, and then go complaining to the mod author that their mod is broken.

Thanks Vorians, I didn't know the exact details of what it cannot handle yet, but knowing from whence it was developed had a good idea it would be trouble, especially in its early stages. :thumbsup:

I was pretty sure people would not want to go installing my pdfs, images and Wrye Bash ini tweaks BAINs with it - cluttering up the data folder. Lord knows what it would have done with the new RobertMalev52 BAIN.

Thanks for the info Vorians. I had left it alone because my mods are BAIN compatible archives with OMOD conversion data, but from your comments, I'm not sure that will work or not. And I really don't have time to test it. So I think I'll disable it for now and possibly revisit it again later.

If you go to http://www.skyrimnexus.com/index.php and look at the news for 11-17-11 you will see a video made by Gopher (who has made several F3/FNV mods and makes great use of FOMM). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_4RotEtks0&feature=player_embedded illustrates some basics of why a mod manager is needed and also the immediate short comings of the NMM: including a failed attempt at installing because the package was labelled as NMM ready but was not.

I'm not sure what qualifications are required for a mod to be flagged as being able to work with the mod manager, but I've downloaded already about 10 for Skyrim that had the tag and like in the video are not a simple archive and therefore will be a fail installation with the mod manager. Perhaps future updates are planned to detect this rather than just accept this. But because of this there is also room for some serious mischief of an uploader putting something malicious in their package and it being installed without the user having a scant notion of such a thing. Certainly there are already several uploaded mods (maybe 100s) that will be failed installations due to not being a simple archive. In turn I fail to see how this is making anyone's life easier (neither mod maker nor mod user).

the NMM is along the same vein of OBMM/FOMM which is to say black box installing. You can check for what it installs, but unless you already know what to check for things would be easy to miss. In short, unlike BAIN, it does not teach what manual installation means and therefore falls short of being a teaching device for modding one's own game. I suspect that they will next be pushing for NMM scripts for even more black box ease of install.

But caution Alt3rn1ty ... I was recently accused with extreme diligence of overstepping my bounds and place in this world for daring to suggest or recommend better packaging that would make life easier for both mod makers and users. Apparently if one does not have an attitude of grateful receiving only, then one is a parasite and villain. I would not wish that discourse on you.

But here I go: Already in Skyrim we have mods being released that are needlessly complex and of no use to any installer method (BAIN or Mod Manager). Either all options are placed in a seemingly simple archive OR folders are embedded one too many times. This is of course easy to correct if you know what you are doing, but I expect a repeat of previous games with a lot of new user complaints that things are not working right. This combined with highly defensive stances on the mod makers part are going to lead to a situation where a false need is generated (something to do it for me) and that is where the NMM will offer a ray of hope for some. It is my small opinion that this will further encourage folks to want for automated and blind installing mechanics which only drives a further rift between mod user and mod maker.

We already have a working port of Wrye Bash with working BAIN and yet a more advanced Wrye program is on the horizon.

So caution in what you advocate for.

Oh no advocations intended, just highlighting that authors can now prevent users trying to install for instance Wrye Bash 291.1 with Nexus Mod Manager :whistling: :rofl:

Popcorn at the ready though

Trouble with the current options is for authors who have not been around for years - Theres an awful lot of fubars waiting to happen which will never have that button turned off.

PS No flash installed, video will be a mystery for me until html5 (and its inevitable dom storage exploitation)

Edit: Oh wait, advocating .. Yeah gotcha, edited my comment on TESNexus which suggested to try NMM for one user before I had a clue from Vorians details above :thumbsup:

Thanks for the heads up. I just disabled NMM downloading for all Wrye Bash files, as they definitely wouldn't get installed correctly by NMM.

Alt3rn1ty-

I might've misunderstood - at first I thought you were advocating the use of NMM in this thread. Now the first post is more clear.

Sorry about that. still what I wrote above I stand behind.

The "download with manager" button is the default state and was automatically set on every file in the database. Which of course means those of us aware of how our mods are packaged had to fix those that wouldn't work right in NMM. Like the ones set up in BAIN format with subpackage folders used as options.

Psymon, if this is what you have been meaning by "unfriendly packaging" then yeah, I get where you're coming from entirely. 99% of the time you'll find this isn't a deliberate choice on the part of the modder who packaged it. You'll instead find it's because they don't know how to use their 7z or zip or rar utilities properly. Even those of us who do don't always know how to get it to only include what we want it to.

Something like TES4Files will be a massive help, but it will only gain general use if it's an option available in one of the popular tools. I think it's been asked for as a Wrye Bash thing but they seem to be content with interfacing with the external utility. Which is fine for those who know about it and have installed it. Since this falls under authoring tools it'll be ages before NMM gets anything like this.

You're dead in the water for anything that requires a BAIN wizard.

I gave NMM a test ride of about 20min. In that time I have seen enough of it for the time being to decide to kick it out again. It hung itself up and crashed and would not do anything for me that could either be handled by OBMM or - especially - BAIN. I am just too comfortable with the existing tools to bother with the new one.

As to need for better packing and installing I will only say Cobl 1.73, for example... :rolleyes:

hmm...
I've downloaded a number of files from Nexus these past few days, and not (so far as I know) encountered NMM. Downloads work as they always have for me. I click the download button. I get the SAVE dialog mini-screen. I select my download partition and folder/sub-folder of choice, the file saves properly there. Have I just been lucky and picked files already exempted from NMM?

The only thing that's been bothering me lately at Nexus is getting double download windows. But it's easy enough to close one of 'em. No real harm done.

-Decrepit-

The idea is if you have NMM installed, and you click the big green "Download with Manager" button, on completion of the download NMM will also install it ... Leading where others may only aspire to follow (sarcasm)

That button has been applied for every file on TESNexus ...

Imagine trying to install for example BOSS installer ... with OBMM as the installer for the installer = Mess

or MyMod.rar which includes mymod\randomfoldername\funnytexturespart1\files and NMM extracts that to Data\ = More Mess

or First time poster with a Malware file for the unwary = Lots of Mess

(Wrinkly I know you have seen it - The mention of BOSS was just by way of example)

Yes in essence this is what I've always meant. Call it unfriendly packaging if you will. It just serves no one - the mod user going to get a failed install with anything short of manual installing. The mod maker is asking for more complaints and to be hassled. Now I agree that learning manual installing is valuable information to have and I'm glad for the few installs that I did completely manual as I've learned a lot. There is that point where it is lesson learned and continued manual installing is just a hassle when there are installers available. And I can say without a doubt having to repackage 1000s of mods that I can get 7zip to do it right. Actually I learned it pretty quick.

I've been criticized for advocating the use of better packaging - it gets absurd in my mind. Of course this is not a concern for most of the mods released by most of the modders of this forum. That is rarely whom I speak of. Like mod cleaning - certain mod makers are just going to be offended by this topic, so I guess it is true also of better packaging - certain folks are just going to be offended by the topic. As if it is the case that some lowly mod user has dared profane the image of of the kingly mod maker because they reported the packaging just doesn't work well - and that the only appropriate attitude a mod user can ever have is to be grateful, use what is given, and shut up. That is just a bit much for me.

It serves everyone involved to package better - mod users have less to fuss about and get on with their game and learn something ... and mod makers spend less time on install instructions. Of course having unified packaging for certain projects is but an outgrowth of the same position - why make it harder than it has to be? This is not the same as demanding it be made easier. I'm not even referring to scripted installs with this - just making the packaging work with an installer.

The knowledge learned from manual installing is valuable. This is why BAIN is still the number one choice for teaching. Learning it and seeing the conflicts it detects is akin to how one thinks about a manual install - it just automates it. Even FOMM which has the power to create override rules for each and every file in a package still doesn't present it in a way that I consider related to manual installing.

Just my two septims. A lone opinion at best.

[edit] also for those really wanting a mod manager for Skyrim. The vampiress Ismelda posted a workaround for using OBMM with Skyrim http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1281114-nexus-mod-manager/page__view__findpost__p__19490920:

I went to Nexus and sure enough, NMM download options abound in prominent locations. I probably noticed them right away when NMM launched, read up on it, decided it wasn't for me, and proceeded to totally block NMM from memory. That sounds just like me. One of my chiefest downfalls in life (amongst many downfalls) is that while my comprehension is no worse than that of your average imbecile I retain almost nothing.

In any case, at Nexus it remains easy for those who want no part of NMM to avoid it.

-Decrepit-