By my usage of "simulator", "simulator" and "game" are not mutually exclusive. What would you classify the Sims as? An RPG?

idk if u hunt aliens zombies or an irritating neighbor id say that was good i like the option i didnt power level smith till i was lvl 30 by that i had advance in story missions where the local smiths were giving nada i figure it can be 2 easy or 2 hard and considering all smithing is the same animation with no player input after selecting what u want i like get it over with beside my version was lousy with dragons (hehe half the usa wont understand that)

I think it takes elements from both. Its okay for a game to defy pigeonholes. But if I was forced to, I would call it a real world RPG I suppose. You could probably argue both and neither argument would be entirely true.

Exactly. Truth be told, I love the fact that you can exploit the synergy between the crafting skills to create powerful gear. It allows me to extend the life of low-tier equipment which I like the look of and can even let me wear clothes items as 'armour' pieces.

No one was sold a hunting rifle. People were sold a game (whatever that is).

While obviously an exaggeration (and a joke), this seems slightly relevant: http://xkcd.com/971/

Of course, they'd have to rebalance the supply of materials in the world..... I know that, advancing up the Light Armor side of the perk tree, I certainly would never have found enough materials to level the skill if I couldn't use Iron and Leather for a great deal of it. As it was, I had to buy my first bars of Quicksilver from a shop to make & improve my Elven Sword (this was at a level appropriate time - I'd been finding Elven armor bits periodically, but hadn't gotten a sword yet).

It may be that I explored in the wrong directions, or just was unlucky. But as I've found it, there aren't nearly enough sources of Malachite/Quicksilver/Moonstone to level (Light Armor) Smithing up from, say, 40-100. Especially if you take it off the vendors.



Again, my experience may be different because I went the Light Armor route, which tops out at Glass weapons. But, still - as I mentioned in the previous thread, I leveled smithing "as I went", using 99% materials found in the world (bought a handful of quicksilver and moonstone when my own supplies were lacking or nonexistant). Even using lots of Iron and Leather, I was only making items at the same levels that I was finding them in the world. I didn't hit 100 Smithing until level 48 (having buckled down and decided to make that final push from Glass to Dragonscale, which involved doing alot of Mine raiding for materials). The only smithing "bonus" items I used were ones that I'd found - a small number of potions, and +20% gloves and necklace.

Luckily, I found a Daedric Sword in a chest, somewhere in the mid 40's. With my equipment and potions, I've been able to improve it to "Legendary" - around 100 damage with the One-Handed skill and bonuses I have on my gear.

It's enchanted with 1-second Soul Trap. Because that's more useful than the somewhat poor damage enchants I could put on the thing.... when I want to attack with special effects, I use enchanted weapons that I've found. Again, as I mentioned in the previous thread, without high-powered Enchanting skill (near maxed, perks, bonus potions, etc) you can't craft gear better than the things you find in the world - their enchantments make a big difference.


So yeah... perhaps Smithing could use some tweaks (having different items give different amounts of increase, so there's a reason to make more than daggers of whatever material you're working in, for instance). But major changes (like "Iron only works until skill 40") would require other parts of the game to be rebalanced as well.

And the skill as it is, isn't "broken".... depending on how you use it. Personally, I don't find min/maxing or powerleveling to be "playing naturally" / "common sense". Maybe for some people (ones who're perhaps overly fond of that playstyle, or are used to games where it's the required playstyle) it is. Needless to say, the two different viewpoints will look at Skyrim's systems and have completely different reactions to it.


edit: not sure if it provides any insight into playstyle, but.... I only got around to doing the Civil War and the later half of the MQ after level 50. Sidequests and exploration are just so distracting.

I don't have any problems with the game mechanics and I play how it was intended. I'm surprised a little by which skills have reached certain numbers and some haven't. I thought I used them more. I've just been playing by using whatever I needed for the moment, not grinding skills or exploiting anything...like you know, playing a game?

:tes:

Exactly.

And as I went along, I learned how to limit myself.

But I know people who whine like the OP is whining now, are generally the people who are responsible for Beth taking out features altogether (See spellmaking).

TL;DR... What does it mean? Sorry for highjacking a thread but I gotta know.

Exactly.

I used to play an MMO callled Dark Age of Camelot and the crafting in that was very well thought out.
The higher level the level in crafting that you were the more expensive the material you had to craft in order to get a raise in skill and it was completely random whether you actually gained a point when crafting.
There was also the chance that a crafting caused a failure and then all the materials go boom...
Only the masochistic tried to get to LGM - the cost in gold and real time needed was horrible.
:)

Too long, didn't read.

Another thread hijack, but almost choked when I saw someone arguing in a thread a couple of weeks ago about simplification, and they were arguing AGAINST simplification, respond to a long well thought out defence with "TL;DR" (Too Long;Didn't Read)

Voted that.

Bethesda may have removed attributes from this game but my willpower is still here. If I don't like something I simply decide not to use it and it doesn't really bother me.

Of course, as an MMO, it had additional considerations in designing the crafting system (the presence of many many players in the same world means that incredibly low chances to make "great" stuff is reasonable; the desire for gold sinks to keep the multiplayer economy in check; and most importantly - the desire to make "success" at crafting take the most time possible, so that subscribers have time sinks to make them keep paying their subs.)

Is not gathering ore role-playing ?
Is not smelting them into metal bars role-playing ?
Is not upgrading your weapons and armor with those bars role-playing ?
Or more generally, is not using present game mechanics role-playing ?
Or is it just kidding yourself ?
The 2 are NOT the same.
My general perception of roleplaying games has always been one of players imagining things that aren't there, not ignoring things that ARE.
Besides that i don't think anything is "broken" here, it's just a concious design decision that has been made and been implemented.

In my experience, Smithing is neither broken, nor overpowered. However, I have also leveled Smithing naturally, only using it when I want a new weapon or piece of armor, and not just grinding out Iron Daggers to pump my level as fast as possible.

I also feel mo sympathy for people who do that to get top end armor at a low level and then complain they are overpowered. By doing so, you are explicitly choosing the act of "power gaming", thus you cannot complain about becoming overpowered. Especially when the official game guide blatantly states that it is better to level skills "naturally" because that is how the game is designed. That's not a game design issue, that's a player issue for playing against the game design.

Smithing and Enchanting is not broken. In anyway shape or form. I don't care that its easy to level up Smithing by making daggers, that doesn't mean its broken. It only means it can be exploited. A person who knowingly exploits is doing so for a quick equipment gain at the expense of overall game experience. So, they deserve whatever negative effects their exploiting creates.

The idea that it isn't the players fault for making the game to easy by immediately gaining the best gear possible as quickly as possible is complete garbage. You choose how you play and in making that choice, you are deciding how your gaming experience unfolds. So that level 10 character with Dragon armor and Deadric weapons is going to be boss as opposed to the level 10 character with Fine Steel armor and weapons.

So lets stop blaming the game and the devs and point the finger where it should be aimed at. The players. This is a game of choice, right or wrong, good or bad. You make your choices and you live with the consequences.

I'm level 30 Breton with full Deadric armor and weapons, no enchantments, sword and shield warrior. Am I shocked that I can hack n slash my way through my enemies? No, I am not. Am I shocked that with the Bretons natural magic resistance and the Lord Stones magic resistance coupled with the Shield perk to block Magic that Mages can just only tickle me? No, I am not.

Everyone who plays this game knows what they are doing. Its all spelled out right there infront of them. There is no mystery. No "i had no idea that would happen" moments.

Its about power gamers getting their cake and finding its too sweet for their stomachs. Well guess what, next time have a slice not the whole freaking cake.