Hmm. I wouldn't believe anything I read in a planted Thalmor "dossier".... remember cold war disinformation? Oh, probably not - most of you are pretty young....

Spoiler*

Let's dissect this statement taken directly from the Thalmor Dossier on Ulfric. "After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset.The so-called Markarth Incident was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim, although it resulted in Ulfric becoming generally uncooperative to direct contact"

The fact that Ulfric became 'generally uncooperative to DIRECT contact' AFTER Markarth means that before Markarth he was cooperative and in direct contact.

GENERALLY uncooperative means he still is somewhat cooperative, maybe just not as much as usual, and that is only to direct contact.

So off of that statement you can say that Ulfric still communicates and cooperates with the Thalmor indirectly (probably through messengers and other means of communication).

Nowhere does it say they needed to blackmail him! He is willingly treasonous to the Empire. The Thalmor are just using the age old 'divide and conquer' technique and Ulfric is only too happy to help, especially if it means he gets a position of power.

And the Dossier was not 'planted'! Why would the Thalmor implicate their own asset? The Thalmor want the Empire to be weak so they can overtake it. Why would they plant a Dossier that would make the Dragonborn go after their main asset in the civil war? And I am plenty old enough to remember the cold war.

But the dossier wasn't planted - it was stolen! You weren't ever supposed to be there. This was for Thalmor eyes only.

And if you are familiar with espionage in the cold war or otherwise, you know there are other meanings for the word asset.

As for the direct contact, well, if you feel shamed that you broke under torture and this horrible group was going to expose you, come on. You'd do what they asked, as least up to a point. Generally uncooperative...you think anyone who had endured that sort of thing could ever be described as cooperative? Give them what they want so they'll leave you alone. But there's a lot of fear and guilt and trauma there. The Thalmor will use whoever and whatever they have to succeed.

Um. Right. You believe that if you want to. And no, there aren't really any other meanings for "asset" in that sort of context. Though of course, since the dossier is disinformation....

[I should point out, however, that I'm simply playing devil's advocate here.... I won't play either faction questline....]

As a person? I honestly loathe him. I went into the Stormcloak rebellion wanting to like the man, I really did. But every single word that fell out of his mouth caused my ire to mount, until the point where I have no intention of ever supporting that side again unless I roll a character that can look past his faults - or who looks up to him.
As a character? He's interesting as hell. I might dislike the man immensely, but that doesn't change the fact that he's an interesting character to watch.

My main problem with Ulfric are:

1-I'm a Mage, and the rebel jarl of Winterhold is a ignorant who hate mages, the Imperial one is a nice and wise man. If only there was an option to make Ulfric change the Jarl of Winterhold, I would be half fine with he.

2-He is kinda too sick for power, and sometimes he don't see the big picture. Stopping Alduin and Thalmor seems to be minor objectives in his mind.... Tulius at least care for the Thalmor.

3-He could at least say to his soldiers to be nicer with Non-Nord. The Imperials can be rude and violent, but there was no "No Argonian allowed" law in the imperial province, and much less prejudice against race. AND almost none against mages D:


Anyway, I don't like neither the Empire, neither Ulfric, but I usually take Imperial side because of the winterhold thing.
And technically, you are the best person to be Emperor or High King

I think he's by far the most interesting character in the game, and you can definitely see that if you do the Stormcloak line. The more you learn about him, the less you like generally, but I personally think he's awesome. Yes, he's a jerk and desires power over all, but he also has the potential to be a great leader, if he can learn from his mistakes. I think it's pretty clear that his victory and future as high king is going to be made canon, and I can't wait to see what Bethesda has in store for him, lore-wise. Very few chraacters, and especially leaders, in Bethesda lore are even mostly good. And the good leaders are never the most fun.

Anyone who says that Ulfric is just an evil racist maniac is missing a great amount of the story and isn't paying attention, in my opinion. And anyone who says he is a saint who only wants what's best for his people more than anything else are deluded. In my opinion, Ulfric cares for Ulfric first, the people second. The question is only whether or not that is acceptable to you. It is to me, and for that I will always be a Stormcloak on future characters.



If you speak to Ulfric during the main quest, he will tell you the whole story. When he was a boy he was summoned to High Hrothgar to become a Greybeard. He made the journey and spent most of his youth learning to shout and learning the way of the voice. However, when the Great War broke out, he did not find it right that his countrymen were giving their lives while he had to sit on the mountain staying out of it. Because of this, he left the Greybeards and renounced the way of the voice, deciding to use it to fight on behalf of the empire during the war. That is why he can shout. As for why he'd use it in a fair fight, I think that can be explained as well. Ulfric feels that in order to be seen as strong and powerful and capture the hearts of the people, he needs to create a good story surrounding himself. You see this a lot during the Stormcloak version of the civil war. His right-hand even makes fun of him for it. Ulfric probably could have killed Torygg in combat without the shout, but it was the perfect opportunity to strike fear into the hearts of his opponents and create his own little mythos. Who wouldn't want the guy who can shoot freaking lightning out of his mouth leading them? I'm not condoning what he did, because in the end it was NOT a fair fight if he used his shout, whatever his supporters say. But that's why he did it.

I do feel sorry for the Jarl of Whiterun but the fact is, he was given a clear choice. He could support Ulfric or side with the empire, and Ulfric would take Whiterun by force. He sided with the Empire. That is his choice and it is a valid one, but he knew what the consequences would be. So I don't feel TOO sorry for him. He put the people of Whiterun on the chopping block needlessly, out of pride. For all the talk of how evil Ulfric is, in almost every instance Ulfric has given his opponents the chance to leave or join with him. It may not be the greatest choice to have to make, but at least he doesn't run in and slaughter everyone unawares. The Empire sure didn't grant my character this courtesy at the beginning of the game.

Pretty much this, I like him quite a bit more than Tullius (and Galmar is leagues more awesome than Rikke) but I feel his rebellion is ultimately short-sighted and foolish. That is unless he genuinely thinks it would be better to live as "true Nords" for a short time even if it significantly increases the chances of the extinction of mankind. But eh the Thalmor will lose no matter what if there is to be another Elder Scrolls game.

I was going to write more, but I'll keep it brief.

I prefer Stormcloaks to Empire. Do I prefer Ulfric to Tullius...? Probably no. He is supposedly a racist, a murderer, and a traitor, despite me hearing evidence to the contrary, he freely admits he killed the king as an indicator to the Jarls, but he doesnt seem to be lying about his intentions - from my point of view anyway. Despite that, I do not think he would make a good king. Lets step back and review history though... Remember Cuhlecain and Talos? Well... History has a way of repeating itself. Who's to say I cannot use Ulfric as a means of my rightful ascension to the throne? Thalmor? Hah. They're already being held back by the Redguards just fine. The fact that the Empire couldn't just proves that, by Nord custom, they are no longer fit to rule. Talmor coming to Skyrim and Conquering it? Really? A band of elves is gonna conquer an inhospitable land where all natives are against them, where they don't know the terrain, where the weather itself could kill them, and who will be whittled down by guerrilla? I don't think so. In Cyrodiil? Maybe. Its a warm province, a nice place, lots of farmland... Skyrim? Yeah, sure. Come and try. One thing's for certain though - MY Dovahkiin certainly wont be slitting his own throat over stabbing Ulfric in the back.

Ulfric's great, wish he was more openminded about the other races and I kinda wish he eliminated the Farsworn instead of letting them settle in the hills.

I liked his little speech back in Kings palace in Windhelm
justifying his cause is in the war with his nordish accent

but then in the Solittude seige, he began to speak American English
rather fluently and sounds that his had all the lines memorized ...

He is pretty much a stereotypical conservative; religious, self righteous, racist, resort to violence to resolve any issue.
If he was to be a high king, Skyrim would pretty much become an authoritarian state where all Jarls will be striped from their power.
Then he's most likely to invade other countries as he see them as inferior races deserved to be in submission to the Nords.

You know what the single most interesting thing about threads like this is? The fact that so many people become so passionate about the different "sides" in this game.... I wonder - if y'all were to invest that passion into your own governments, would the real world become a better place?

I always roll my eyes when people say things like this. If we were to put the same amount of energy into real-life politics as we are into discussing Ulfric Stormcloak... then we'd be debating politics in a forum on the internet. Which doesn't get jack squat done anyway. And it's very likely that that's what we're doing in the other 23 hours and 56 minutes we're not spending talking about this. To top it off, I'm not really sure how discussing an interesting character and interesting story with other people counts as passion, or how it has anything to do with my government. But hey, maybe if I spend 4 minutes a day on the internet discussing my political beliefs, it will change the world!

Say, maybe you should have spent the time it took you to write that post doing the same. But then again, if you hadn't made that post you would have lost an opportunity to feel self-righteous.

You act as if one precludes the other. The primary reason the civil war is interesting at all is how it touches upon real world issues and makes us think about them in a theoretical setting.

Naa, taking side will lead to an unavoidable conflict. People will then believe everything on blind faith and see anyone who disagree as enemies.
I saw this happened in my country (Thailand) during the last decade. It was really ugly. People hate other strangers solely based on what political party they like.


Back to Ulfric Stormcloak

The way he kill Torygg was terrible. If you talked to people in Blue Palace and Ulfric himself, you'll know that it's actually a planned assassination disguised as a challenge.
Ulfric challenged Torygg in Blue Palace knowing that, according to Nord's custom, Torygg cannot refuse.
Ulfric also knows that Torygg was not a very good fighter and he would not have a chance of winning.

This whole challenge thing make me feel like I'm seeing a murderer got a not-guilty verdict due to some technical loopholes in law system.

prejudice and racist against the dark elve's. which wouldnt work sense windhelm is near the border of morrowind and skyrim.

i killed him.

Not quite. Torygg had the option to back down from the challenge. In this event, the moot convenes and decides if he's still fit to lead. If they decided he wasn't, he'd still be a Jarl, but he'd no longer be High King.

how do I feel about a self absorbed torturer of women, committer of war crimes, and murderer of a man he knew could not withstand his voice/shout so he basically cheated in combat with an unthuumed man?


how do I feel about a bastard who claims to love the nords but is willing to kill half of whiterun "for the good of the nords"

how do I feel about a man who invaded a seperatist group that broke from the empire.......and then murdered every single man who laid down his arms...and then goes and starts his own seperatist movement to break from the empire?


let's see...... I........ feeelllll.........like doing all kinds of evil to him. that is how I feel.



I always love a rebel....but [censored] ulfric.

I don't like him at all. In the game I support the Stormcloak rebellion, but in spite of him not because of him.

He comes across as a creepy, raqey kind of guy. If they had vans in Skyrim, Ulfric would have one with a mattress and no windows in it.

I think his head would look rather pretty on the end of a pike outside the gates of the Imperial City.

Ulfric Stormcloak is a hypocrite, a racist, a lech and a charlatan and his Stormcloaks are playing right into the Thalmor's hands, weakening the Empire and threatening the very existence of mankind.

He's a fool, and I'll be glad to kill him.

... Wut? :blink:

Did I miss something about his proclivities?