Question's in the description-- I've always found it aggravating that no matter how high my sneak skill seems to be, stealing 100 gold or key without being noticed is harder than snapping the person's neck, or breaking into the hlaalu vaults, or FLYING, for example. Why is it so annoyingly difficult? Am I missing something? And if it can be changed, what's the best way to do it?

Thanks in advance for any future replies

Pickpocketing is based on security not sneak, IIRC.

I'm pretty sure it's based on sneak... :shrug:

According to the author of http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=8000, pickpocketing is indeed based on the Sneak skill, but a bug in the game causes the chance of a successful pickpocket to decrease rather than increase as the skill improves - which would certainly explain the problems you're having. I'm not sure how true this is, because the 'fPickPocketMod GMST' means nothing to me - but try installing the mod and see if it helps? I believe the next version of the Morrowind Patch Project may incorporate a fix for this as well.

If it is true then I'm amazed no one caught this before, frankly. It seems like a pretty major bug.

From that same mod link:

"According to MW Scripting for Dummies 9, the formula for a successful pickpocket is Player.Security > d100 + fPickPocketMult * item.Weight.
So the GMST (supposedly) never needed a fix in first place.
Didja check thoroughly the effects of it?"

The guy claims his mod does what it says though so what do I know?

It seems to me that mod would only make it easier to steal while not making it any more or any less weighted by the sneak skill if that equation is right. I had heard that pickpocket was based on security but I don't know for sure. I can't really decide how I would have it work if it were up to me. I guess sneak makes more sense to me but having security factored in doesn't seem out of place either.

I've heard it's based on PC's sneak skill, NPC's security skill and weight of the item, but I never had interest in finding out more on it, so I really wouldn't know if that's true of load of bull's.

All I know on the subject is that in the second thieves guild quests it's near impossible to steal the key from the guy at the council club... And we're talking about a frickin' key here. It's weightless. After that I gave up on pickpocketing and I'm just now wondering about if it's that way in other places, and why it hasn't been fixed yet

Pickpocketing is one of the REALLY REALLY broken game aspects of Morrowind.
I tried it like 3 times and never again tried it.

Shame.

you should try bribing him.

Hmm... I had a look at MWSFD, and it appears that several different checks are made for a successful pickpocket:

Enter/Leave inventory:
Player.Sneak > d100 + Victim.Sneak

Take items:
Player.Security > d100 + fPickPocketMod * item Weight

That kind of makes sense, I guess... but if those formulas are correct, it means that a high Sneak level and a high Security level are needed to pickpocket successfully. It also means that the mod I linked to won't do anything except make it easier to pickpocket heavier items.

makes sense, as my thief that had both security and sneak fairly high never had that much of an issue pickpocketing. however, those d100 rolls means that even with 100 skill, the odds are well against you.

Well that clears things up Thanks guys!


Interesting... What kinds of things are you able to pickpocket in the vanilla? Is pickpocketing, well, profitable with a high enough sneak/security score?

And interestingly enough, the maker of the mod Helena linked reports that it does do something through his tests... this calls for personal testing

I propose a mod to overhaul the pickpocketing system?

Dunno, wouldn't bet. I had epic fails with both pickpocketing and enchanting even when I had all skills even above 100. I raised my sneak and security trough apparel enchantments and I still couldn't steal a single coin.

As for stealing, not really profitable anyway, nobody really wears like 1K of gold, it's much easier to go to Daedric Shrine and get Daedric weapon to sell it (or heck, even brake into a storage of trader's house and steal silver swords or two) than to steal from people at high risk of being caught, when you'd need to rip off half Vivec to make a profit equal to 2 silver swords for example.