OK, the ORIGINAL Bard's Tale, circa what, 1986? When, in my major city, there were probably 5 computer game shops, as opposed to games being sold at every department store.

I didn't even know they'd updated it until a couple of years ago, and I still haven't played the updated version. Sometimes, some things are better left in the past, where they can glow with the burnished patina of fond memory.

That really depends on what you qualify as an exploit. would i say casting muffle over and over to level illusion is an exploit? no i would not, i would call it an intended game mechanic. I would count an exploit as using a broken script in the game to powerlevel something, such as talking to someone with a broken speech window to persuade him over and over to level speech to 100 in a few minutes, or buying training from someone then making them your follower going into the trade window and taking the money back.

You lucky son of a b***h, I had to find a shelf in the local department store, a whole shop? dedicated to computer games? That would be insane!

The new bards tale isn't based off the original anyway, its designed as an RPG game, which parodies RPG's, nothing to do with the original but the name.

Like I said, I live in a major town (a capital city in fact), and at the time, there were like 5 places in the whole of my city that sold computer games (and IIRC most of those were on cartridge - damn!). It was awesome to pick it up, and just explore a whole new world. I really wish sometimes that todays RPGers could know the feeling of having something so totally new and amazing load up for the first time. How old are you? If you don't mind me asking.

Anyways, it shouldn't detract from my original point... we have come so far, to the point where we, as individuals, can pretty much tailor the gameplay in something like TES to our own individual preferences, based on what we want to use, I would be... disappointed to see such disappear.



It saddens me to hear this.

Like I said, some things are better left in memory....

I think alot of the new mentality has to do with noticing alot of the new TES players are coming fresh from MMOs. They are used to powerleveling and grinding for months on games like AION and WoW. There is nothing wrong with the MMOs. But IMO in some ways Skyrim has a little MMO feel to it compared to Morrowind/Fallout 3/ and Oblivion. Just to get any decent gear made I have to grind out smithing and enchanting. Which took me till lvl 47 to max, I did it slowly. Also as someone mentioned in another thread, The reason people are powerleveling these skills is because the lack of any decent weapon or armor drops. Most of the looted stuff has only one effect or has low stat effects. So to compensate, We max smithing and enchanting and make it ourselves. I can make better stuff now then the game drops.

@ Weightaholic: You said it all. :foodndrink:


Let me tell you a story. I had a pair of Ebony gloves and an Ebony helmet that I found as lost treasure. I always wanted to wear a full suit. The skills and perks are there. Instead, I kept searching for it untill I met this one Orc asking for a daedra heart (avoiding spoilers here). When I bring him what he was after, he offered me that Ebony suit - as promised - something that I was craving for a long time.

Now that is some special suit I got there. And I can feel a bit sorry for those who can't have patience to play a slower paced game. Skyrim is so awesome - it will never compare to MMOs.

So you didn't use the skill at all. That's my problem. I restrict myself from using the skill and have many self-imposed restrictions in order to make the game enjoyable. It shouldn't be like that.
And yes MMOs are a completely different thing and none should even mention them here, i agree.

My brother's been exploiting Illusion, Conjuration, Alteration and Destruction for the last 2 hours...and now's he complaining. Oh yeah, and he's whining because I don't want to tell him how to exploit Restoration.

Not everyone powerlevels to be "epic". Some of us do it to catch up to lost progress. Let's say that for RP purposes, my character is to use NO magic. However, I screw up and take a quest that requires me to join... the college of winterhold. The goal of the character is to not have to do such a thing. I don't want to do sneaky stuff, either - I'm a warrior, one who also understands the value of wellcrafted armor and weapons, and battletests them to prove their worth.

However, when I screw up, and it causes me to destroy my RP goals, or in some cases glitches screw me and I can't complete a questline due to a pre-cleared dungeon, I find myself having to start over. I power grind my stuff back to where it was, go do those quests I was supposed to do again, and basically make up for lost time.

I'm not one of those who throws everything into health like an idiot, either. I am a warrior - and stamina is my answer to mana. I try to maintain a proper 0:3:2 Magicka/Health/Stamina ratio with this character, so they can use more power attacks, sprint for a respectable amount of time, and can hold more than just their armor.

My builds carefully take into consideration the MHS ratio. Mages travel light and have lower physical attributes, so I tend to do a 4:1:0. If they can't carry something, they have to drop something and deal with it. My thief? She's not good in combat, but great with stealth, and needs biiig pockets. I try to maintain a 0:2:5 ratio with them. My assassin does engage in combat. They're a 0:1:1. My spellsword? Needs all three. I try to keep a 3:3:2 ratio.

There's more than just powerleveling and exploits to consider. Build is a very important factor in the game. So you oversmithed your armor and gear. Guess what? To power that up enemies are now quite strong. If you dumped everything into health, let us all laugh when they overwhelm you, you run out of potions, and you find yourself unable to escape. And oh, you got a rare artifact you want to show up? Walk home, buddy, because you're over encumbered. And now look, how cute. A trio of snow bears are chasing you. I hope you bothered to actually wear some heavy armor before making that daedric stuff, because if you ain't got the skill to wear it... well, svcks to be you.

Why? Is there a decree from the RPG gods that you MUST use only the best weapons and armour you can craft always, lest ye be banished to the pit?

Am I one of the few that accept that to make my own personal gameplay enjoyable, I may not have to use the best of everything?

Like almost everything in life...

It is the Journey not the destination.

Evidently we were wrong, and actually its about making sure you have a grenade launcher when you get there.

Who knew?

No! There is a decree from common sense that a skill implemented in a game is supposed to be used and furthermore be fun and enjoyable.
Fun and enjoyable in this case = having effort/reward and being immersive.

I deliberately don't use things like duel enchanted weps, smithed up to 200%, because I know from experience it makes the game too easy, and I'm having a blast. Astonishingly, I also don't find it an enormous effort. You tell me... of the two of us, who's enjoying the game more?

Now, I would refer you to my post where I said that if people don't wish to make an effort to do something for themselves, I would hear no more from them. I believe it was the previous page.

I believe you didn't understand a thing of what i said
Nevermind

On my first character, I only abused the Speechcraft exploit, and it wasn't to get perks. It was for a few levels, because I wanted some more HP/Magicka (due to getting owned all the time in dungeons).

On my new character, I'm abusing several exploits for the following reasons:

1) I got bit by the bug that erased my other character's savegame when I started the new one and I'd like to get as many levels back as possible. I was 39 on my lost character. Two days of playing with the new one, with exploits, and I'm already 29. I'd like to get as close as I can. Also, before anyone claims I'm lame for doing this - I've not started any quests yet (except for Camilla's love triangle, the Dragon Claw, alerting the Jarl of Whiterun about dragons, and agreeing to go acquire the Dragonstone), so I will have quite a challenge with beefed up enemies. There is a balance.

-and-

2) Since I worked from 1-39 on my original character, I know the challenge of the hard work it takes to get there. Now is the time for me to have fun. I want a more cinematic experience. The hero of the movie is usually a bad mammajamma for most of the movie. Sure, he faces some challenges along the way (and I will - see above), but he also has all of his perks on his side (good with a gun/sword, smooth-talking, extra stealthy, etc.) so he can beat the bad guys. I have played D&D off and on since I was 14 years old (20 years ago - it's a lot less now, I assure you) and I can't tell you how often Dungeon Masters make you work from level 1 onward and then puss-out once you start getting good (i.e. "Gee whiz, guys, it's hard for me to make challenging games for you because your characters are so powerful and I don't have the time to put together complex, epic quests for you, so let's just start all-new characters back at level 1"). It's total BS. This is my chance to be the established protagonist.

Also, I'm not one to use the exploits, then complain about how easy things are - unlike the jerks this thread is about.

TL;DR, I know...

But surely you must appreciate that on the hardest setting, self limitation/poor/flawed characters should be utterly up against it, not the 'go to' method to get a challenge. I'd absolutely support all the arguments against balance if the majority of people were not talking about master. But they are, so I do not.


To turn it around some - why is there a decree that despite cranking the game as hard is it will go out of the box, must I still have taboo spells and abilities if I want it to not become, basically, an extended cut scene? If I wanted that, there's novice.



There is a significant head in the sand element to genuine, 'out of the box' balance problems - to raise them results in any/all of: powergaming loser/god show restraint/omg its TES/you cant RP/its an RPG. All of which are valid with regard to looped crafting but are painly not valid or applicable to a heap of other balance concerns.



In most extreme terms/example I present the illusion using mage: The difficulty can be novice, the difficulty can be master, it doesnt matter. The challenge presented to the character, save possibly the trip to the first village, is the almost exactly same.

Now, I may be old fashion but when a game is as challenging on 'super easy' as it is on 'super hard' when you're using no questionable tactics at all suggests something is off somewhere.

Actually, I find exploiting the game to be the best part.

Playing less than optimal efficiency for my character concept = lame.

I'm the same way in strategy games, too. I like to win. Always.

And don't give me that 'just use the console' garbage. Then it's not a game.

Why is your character compelled to follow a quest line that is outside of his "role"?

This is part of the problem, the belief that all quests absolutely must be done by any character.

I don't like leaving things half done. I pick up a strange stone thing. I finally find someone in riften who I have a dialogue option with. I'm told... to check with the thieves' guild. So I try to ignore it. Then I find this amulet thing off a Duagar guy. Apparently, there's two more. I find one, then the other, according to the book I've read, is... wait, but this place is locked, how do I... I'll bend and check UESP. ...I have to join the mage's college.

So that's two non-misc quests that will stay there forever. I shrug, frustrated, and unable to get rid of these items (Seriously? Who in their right mind thought that was a good idea?!). Apparently, people were stupid in the last games and sold quest items, so now we have programming designed to hold the hands of morons. What if I don't want to return the stupid golden claw? What if I want to keep it? Display it with the other claws?

Tangents aside, the final straw? I was being a good girl and cleared out a group of Silver Hand (I am doing the companions questline - it only seemed right!). Turns out that was their main base. Turns out I screwed myself out of completing the compaion's questline.

Final straw snaps, character recreation go.

Here here bang on the money. The best response I have read too all you pissy pants who keep moaning. I am Fiercely loyal to this game because of the amount of Freedom it has bestowed on me.