A true review from a long time TES fan. : V - Skyrim

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:19 am

>expecting Morrowind 2.0

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/9/93288/1730964-mfw.jpg

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:29 pm

:grad:

First, a little history. My first game was Morrowind in 2002. It was, and remains, one of my favorite games of all times. I still have never done vampire clans or the temple, despite having owned the game for so long and playing it so much.

Morrowind, was truly an open game. Not having a starter dungeon made it all the more open. You never had to do anything in Morrowind, the world was completely and utterly open. Soon as you got off that boat, you were on your own. Only having vague directions to some place called Balmora and some guy named Caius Cosades, with little idea how to even get to Balmora. It took me awhile to even first get to Balmora. The world was wide open before you, an open world, with little idea what was going on, or what was even supposed to happen.

You could completely and utterly ignore the main quest with little consequence, it was not pushed on you whatsoever. You can easily sell your package for caius and get lost forever, there was no guide in morrowind.

The quests were fulfilling and fun. You had to have skills worthy of a position to be promoted to it.

Even with it's age, it is still the greatest.

Let's move onto Oblivion in 2006. The dungeons were bland, this is true enough. But the landscape was beautiful, and the game aged well. The quest were fulfilling. When you made Guild Leader, there was a real reward, and people recognized. It felt solid.

Now, Skyrim. The dungeons are great, shouts are cool, there are some new spells, and a new province, and it's generally fun.

Now we get to the cons which are the most numerous of all TES games I've played.

The game has become overly simplified, and to be frank, dumbed down to apply to the masses to make more money. The game was never really mainstream before Skyrim. Oblivion did well, but it wasn't halo mainstream.

You took Attributes, which is a killer. This hurts the game for me. Maybe I'm just being a bitter vet, but Attributes are a core of the game. This is an extreme dumbing down.

Next, perks. Perks are out of style of TES games, and yet they are introduced. They limit the usefulness of all skills and narrow your path quite a bit, no longer can you do everything as much as you want.

Birthsigns can be gotten from any stone at any time. No more one shot and that's it. At the same you time you limit people, you open more. Rather redundant.

When you complete a quest, it feels empty and not as rewarding.

When you become leader of a guild, it feels like nothing changed. Guards still talk to you like you're brand new.

Guilds are hollow now. There is no more series of earned promotions, you just go from apprentice to arch-mage, and that's it. They are all only a couple quests long.

Then you have the end battle with Alduin. How extremely anti-climatic and incredibly lame. Once again, nothing changes afterwords.

The only thing that really improved was dungeon design, and radiant quests are a plus, but they do not make up for lost content by a very, very, long shot.

Overall, Skyrim is fun, don't get me wrong. But there is a lot previous games did better. Maybe I'm just bitter, but take it as you will.

you're not the first to post a "review". We get one of these almost every day, and they start out almost exactly the same

Morrowind is a better game, Skyrim is flawed

take a number and get in line :grad:

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:48 pm

Really? So how do you scientifically prove that someone's username is "good" or "bad"? Or that an RPG is the "worst" out of the group that any specific person has played?

You cannot. It's all subjective opinion.

The "I" in the "worst RPG" statement should be more than enough to imply that it's that person opinion.

Let's not make rocket science out of this.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:36 pm

Really? So how do you scientifically prove that someone's username is "good" or "bad"? Or that an RPG is the "worst" out of the group that any specific person has played?

You cannot. It's all subjective opinion.

Exactly, so we agree then?

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:42 pm

I might be coming across as harsh but really I've been through the same thing and trying to help the people who are Morrowind or bust. About 5 years ago I gave up trying to find the next Everquest. Once I realized it was never going to happen again, other games with RPG roots became fun again. His deliver the package to Caius story was a simple one....not unlike the many simple stories we all have had in our first "open world".

Can't argue with your logic. Makes sense to enjoy what you do have instead of wasting your life [censored]ing about what you don't. I enjoy Skyrim, but for some reason it just isn't clicking. It isn't pulling me in. Early in the game a Dragon attacked a town. Everyone is screaming for help, but for some reason I just didn't care. I couldn't even make myself give a snit.

I could come up with excuses that basically boil down to blaming Bethesda such as "well, it isn't my town, I didn't grow up here, I don't know anyone here, it's their town, they should save it instead of begging for a Hero handout, etc,etc,etc"., but I know deep down that I've cared in other games with less reason to. I just can't figure out why. Something's missing. I feel like I'm just going through the motions and worse yet, the game is as well.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:15 am

Is that your opinion or is that a fact? :homestar:

Remember - when it comes to TES forums there is no such thing as opinion - only fact.

It is practically been scientifically proven, by Stephen Hawking no less, that Skyrim is the worst game in the series, maybe the entire year, not an RPG, Bethesda despises its fans etc.

Anybody that disagree with that is just peddling baseless opinion and probably is only 12, has ADHD and never played a real RPG in their life. :glare:

Or the competing scientific fact that Skyrim is the best game in the series, Bethesda can do no wrong etc.

Anybody that disagrees with that is blind without their nostalgia glasses, probably only plays knows how to complain and wants gaming stuck in 1990. :glare:

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:47 pm

you're not the first to post a "review". We get one of these almost every day, and they start out almost exactly the same

I see, where there is smoke, there must be a fire.

Morrowind is a better game, Skyrim is flawed

Yes, that must be it then. I take it that you apparently also agree.

take a number and get in line

Wow, apparently a really widely shared opinion. You must not be feeling lonely standing in the line, I hope.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:02 pm

The "I" in the "worst RPG" statement should be more than enough to imply that it's that person opinion.

Let's not make rocket science out of this.

Now you're arguing semantics. If the second statement I referenced has simply been "This is the worst RPG ever!" you would be in the exact same situation.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:07 pm

And I have said it twice, and the second time obviously ironically.
And please, please, please do not go threatening to report.

Either do so or dont, but do not go telling me you will go tell teacher on me.

"He is right"
How?
When the entire post I quoted was nothing more than inflammatory rhetoric that had nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand and wasnt even adressing any of the points made?
It basically was: I dont like you, you svck.

I have a right to make a valid observation on that.
And if you then take your time to post that 'he is right', for comedy purposes I reprinted the message, as it is a case of two flies one stone.

Now.
Can we go on to discuss the topic presented by the orginal poster or is there more gibberty gabber?

I believe the figure of speech you are referring to is "Two birds with one stone."

I think people should also keep in mind that they were 9 years (almost 10) younger when Morrowind first came out. Unless you were already an advlt back then, I don't feel that anyone's view of a perfect video game would be the same as it was a decade ago. It's not just that the type of games you are playing are changing, you are also changing and moving on.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:50 pm

The OP is right on a few accounts, but where I disagree is with the perk system. As a long time TES player, I've always felt like the game would do well if it incorporated perks, and the leveling system in Skyrim is FAR superior to Morrowind or Oblivion. That being said, where Skyrim fails miserably is:

1) Lack of Attributes - I can understand streamlining for efficiency, but reducing ALL stats to a simple choice between Magic, Health and Stamina was a huge disappointment. Sure, we might not need Luck or Personality (embodying them in Speech or other Perks is just fine) but completely denigrating the old system in favor of over-simplified stats is a bitter pill to swallow.

2) Factions - In no other TES game have I ever truly felt like factions were just glorified questlines except for Skyrim. In Morrowind, as the OP brings up, you took pride in being a part of a faction, leveling your skills to meet the demands of rank, and the sheer volume of things to do with your guild was fantastic. Oblivion continued that tradition admirably. I honestly felt like I was a part of something big as I proceeded through the factions in those games. In Skyrim, the only well developed factions were the Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood, but their endings and consequences in the world were just awful. Hey, cool, I murdered the emperor, but NOTHING has changed, and many NPCs still talk about the Emperor as if he were alive. Hey, cool, I'm the GM of the Thieves Guild, but the entire guild still acts like I'm the new guy and Brynjolf won't even talk to me anymore - "Sorry lad, I've got a lot to do". The College of Winterhold, the Companions, the Bards Guild, and the Civil War were all huge disappointments. They feel rushed and incomplete.

3) Dragons - In my first runthrough I immediately noticed how easy dragons were compared to their status as "Scourges of the Earth". Sure, blood dragons are supposed to weak, I can understand a scaling system in dragon difficulty based on level, but even Ancient dragons are a walk in the park when you're properly perked and have a good stock of potions. I find dragons more of an annoyance than a challenge. "Great, I can't fast travel because I have to wait for this stupid dragon to land and kill it every time I switch cities". As for Alduin, what a huge disappointment. Not only is the fight 100% boring, but you have 3 followers and a tank to bring him down, and when you kill him, nothing changes for the better, no one even recognizes your accomplishment.

4) NPCs and Thievery - NPCs are boring and seem to have LESS to do in the world than Oblivion. I don't feel the excitement I felt in Oblivion from stealing from castles or houses, as most of the time these places are empty or there is NO consequence from the guards who watch you just walk through the private quarters of a Jarl. Stealing has gotten extremely boring, especially considering how pointless gold has become. On my level 47 thief I have 260,000 gold and every house in the game....there's something wrong there, lol.

I'm sure there are other things that bug me, but those are the biggest, and the rest are minor issues that I expect with any game.

Where does Skyrim go right? It's:

1) Beautiful graphics and amazing open world - What a gorgeous world. If you've played the game, you know what I mean, and that's enough said.

2) Fantastic array of dungeon designs - Again, if you've played it, you already know how awesome the dungeon design is, especially compared to the previous TES installments.

3) Perks and Leveling System - I know some players don't like it, I respect that, but I absolutely love the new leveling system, and the perk system makes for great replayability. As a perfectionist, I always hated having to level to 30 in Oblivion just to start enjoying myself in the game (ie. making sure I had the best version of the leveled items), Skyrim addresses this in significant way. Is it perfect? No. Is it a great stride forward? Absolutely.

4) Variety of creatures and miscellaneous quests - The sheer volume of monsters and radiant/option quests is astounding.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:22 am

Now you're arguing semantics. If the second statement I referenced has simply been "This is the worst RPG ever!" you would be in the exact same situation.

There appears to be some confusion so let me state my case again.

Most things on any internet forum are opinions and for that reason there is no need to preface every post with "In my opinion". When things are facts, people usually refer to them as such and can provide a link if needed.

Fact: Morrowind is the 3rd game in the Elder Scrolls series. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_III:_Morrowind

Opinion: Oblivion is the best game in the Elder Scrolls series. I can't provide proof because it's an opinion.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:15 pm

I believe the figure of speech you are referring to is "Two birds with one stone."

I think people should also keep in mind that they were 9 years (almost 10) younger when Morrowind first came out. Unless you were already an advlt back then, I don't feel that anyone's view of a perfect video game would be the same as it was a decade ago. It's not just that the type of games you are playing are changing, you are also changing and moving on.

Oh I see, I got that mixed up. Im not English

In my country we say 'swat two flies in one slap'. lol.

And Im really old

Already way an advlt when I played Morrowind.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:58 am

Now you're arguing semantics. If the second statement I referenced has simply been "This is the worst RPG ever!" you would be in the exact same situation.

I hope to god this conversation doesn't influence anyone. The fact that we are arguing something that should be common sense is [censored] absurd.

Lets view this in another way. Ask yourself: Do you think ppl that review games for a living give opinion or fact when they give a number for it? Example - PC Gamer give Fallout 3 a 90%.

Now thats opinion..why? B/c......

You know what?.....It's easier to call you an overthinker......which isn't a good thing.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:20 pm

I hope to god this conversation doesn't influence anyone. The fact that we are arguing something that should be common sense is [censored] absurd.

Lets view this in another way. Ask yourself: Do you think ppl that review games for a living give opinion or fact when they give a number for it? Example - PC Gamer give Fallout 3 a 90%.

Now thats opinion..why? B/c......

You know what?.....It's easier to call you an overthinker......which isn't a good thing.

And people don't get offended by game reviews?

Video game reviews are not discussions.

EDIT: It's just as easy to call you an underthinker, though calling me an overthinker is less provocative than calling me absurd, as you had pre-edit.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:09 am

There should probably be a stickied review thread or something.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:57 pm

The OP is right on a few accounts, but where I disagree is with the perk system. As a long time TES player, I've always felt like the game would do well if it incorporated perks, and the leveling system in Skyrim is FAR superior to Morrowind or Oblivion. That being said, where Skyrim fails miserably is:

1) Lack of Attributes - I can understand streamlining for efficiency, but reducing ALL stats to a simple choice between Magic, Health and Stamina was a huge disappointment. Sure, we might not need Luck or Personality (embodying them in Speech or other Perks is just fine) but completely denigrating the old system in favor of over-simplified stats is a bitter pill to swallow.

2) Factions - In no other TES game have I ever truly felt like factions were just glorified questlines except for Skyrim. In Morrowind, as the OP brings up, you took pride in being a part of a faction, leveling your skills to meet the demands of rank, and the sheer volume of things to do with your guild was fantastic. Oblivion continued that tradition admirably. I honestly felt like I was a part of something big as I proceeded through the factions in those games. In Skyrim, the only well developed factions were the Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood, but their endings and consequences in the world were just awful. Hey, cool, I murdered the emperor, but NOTHING has changed, and many NPCs still talk about the Emperor as if he were alive. Hey, cool, I'm the GM of the Thieves Guild, but the entire guild still acts like I'm the new guy and Brynjolf won't even talk to me anymore - "Sorry lad, I've got a lot to do". The College of Winterhold, the Companions, the Bards Guild, and the Civil War were all huge disappointments. They feel rushed and incomplete.

3) Dragons - In my first runthrough I immediately noticed how easy dragons were compared to their status as "Scourges of the Earth". Sure, blood dragons are supposed to weak, I can understand a scaling system in dragon difficulty based on level, but even Ancient dragons are a walk in the park when you're properly perked and have a good stock of potions. I find dragons more of an annoyance than a challenge. "Great, I can't fast travel because I have to wait for this stupid dragon to land and kill it every time I switch cities". As for Alduin, what a huge disappointment. Not only is the fight 100% boring, but you have 3 followers and a tank to bring him down, and when you kill him, nothing changes for the better, no one even recognizes your accomplishment.

4) NPCs and Thievery - NPCs are boring and seem to have LESS to do in the world than Oblivion. I don't feel the excitement I felt in Oblivion from stealing from castles or houses, as most of the time these places are empty or there is NO consequence from the guards who watch you just walk through the private quarters of a Jarl. Stealing has gotten extremely boring, especially considering how pointless gold has become. On my level 47 thief I have 260,000 gold and every house in the game....there's something wrong there, lol.

I'm sure there are other things that bug me, but those are the biggest, and the rest are minor issues that I expect with any game.

I most definitely agree with 2-4, I don't necessarily agree with your first point. 3 attributes aren't much, but with the former system I always found myself keeping track of my skill increases for every single level in order not to "waste" a level up by not getting at least a +3 attribute increase. This feeling is gone now and I don't [censored]in miss it, in Skyrim I finally concentrate on the important parts.

Where does Skyrim go right? It's:

1) Beautiful graphics and amazing open world - What a gorgeous world. If you've played the game, you know what I mean, and that's enough said.

2) Fantastic array of dungeon designs - Again, if you've played it, you already know how awesome the dungeon design is, especially compared to the previous TES installments.

3) Perks and Leveling System - I know some players don't like it, I respect that, but I absolutely love the new leveling system, and the perk system makes for great replayability. As a perfectionist, I always hated having to level to 30 in Oblivion just to start enjoying myself in the game (ie. making sure I had the best version of the leveled items), Skyrim addresses this in significant way. Is it perfect? No. Is it a great stride forward? Absolutely.

4) Variety of creatures and miscellaneous quests - The sheer volume of monsters and radiant/option quests is astounding.

And I agree again. Except for the part about the volume of monsters, while increasing the sheer amount, they reduced the amount of different monsters, which bugs me a bit, but lorewise there seems to be no other possibility as the doors to Oblivion are shut for lesser Daedra.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:56 pm

And people don't get offended by game reviews?

Video game reviews are not discussions.

EDIT: It's just as easy to call you an underthinker, though calling me an overthinker is less provocative than calling me absurd, as you had pre-edit.

No, b/c I learned in grammar school how to differentiate between an opinion and fact.

And that statement is a fact.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:42 pm

No, b/c I learned in grammar school how to differentiate between an opinion and fact.

And that statement is a fact.

Hmm, you know what?

Cool story, bro.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:36 am

Could Morrowind seem better because you grew up with it? Also, could Skyrim be cliched because everything in it has been done before (including in Morrowind) so nothing is truly fresh for you? I'm not trying to be mean, but it's all relative. People will love whatever they feel attached to and have memories of. For you it? may be Morrowind, but for younger people Skyrim may be that one childhood game that will be untouchable in their hearts for years to come.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:59 pm

I agree with some things.But i think skyrim is better then oblivion.i love morrowind<3