Hello everyone,

(posted this in the FO:NV sub-forum, but I thought that it probably deserves a place here, seeing as thisis Fallout Universe disscusion...)

I have been looking around here and whenever someone (like me) brings up that they want to see the Enclave in FO:NV, someone else allways say "they have been destroyed! So they cannot be in the game!"

I went looking on the FO wiki and looked up the fate of the Enclave, and well, there is nothing to support that they are no longer around. Yes, their tanker (, their main HQ) was blown up in FO2, but besides that, nobody knows (In FO3:BS, it could go either way. I choose to destroy the brotherhood ).

It seems that the Enclave where, in a large way, in charge of the production of the Vaults. If they where, why would they only have ONE place where the Enclave where stationed?? They must have built multiple vaults (or shelters) to protect (what they saw as) the last pure strains of humanity. They could be all over the USA (like the regulare vaults) for all we know. Even Raven Rock was a example of a secondary outpost for the Enclave. President Eden even says that he was just one of the stations that the Enclave built and held after the great war.

Also, in FO2, when the Enclaves tanker (their HQ) gets destroyed, Navarro (another giant Enclave base) is still in tact, and has hundreds (Or More?) in the base, so they are still a threatening Military force.

And In fallout: Broken Steel, you have the chance to let the Enclave live. Even if you don't, Elder Lyons tells you that the Enclave is still a threat, and that the war is not yet over.

So my question is, did the Enclave really get deystroyed?

The Enclave leadership took a serious hit and I think it could quite possibly go either way. Having manpower and resources is one thing, but without leaders to marshal them, it's quite feasible that the Enclave's operations would have fallen apart.
On the other hand, there's no reason a new character could step forward who had been waiting for just such an opportunity to seize power of the organisation.


Oilrig, not tanker.

Oh and "were", not "where". I've seen that typo about fifteen times looking over a handful of topics here and I'm tired of overlooking it.

Well, remember, the Enclave is modeled after the USA army, and soldiers in the USA (and their officers) are trained to handle themselfs if they are isolated from higher command. If I am not mistaken, the BoS was a part of the US army that did not agree with their superiors orders so they broke off and formed their own group. They managed to survive.

So the soldiers in the Enclave almost certianly could handle their situation without direct supervison, and would (most likely) be able to reform their higher command with new individuals within their own rankes.

lol, srry for spelling mistakes :cryvaultboy:

The Enclave are not the military. They have a military that identifies itself as the US military, and probably included military members at its founding. The BOS were the militart unit assigned to Mariposa who discovered the experiments going on with FEV, Broadcast far and wide their intention to desert, and were suprised that there was no reprocussion to their action.


The Problem is is that the survivors have been more than decimated twice now. There cant be that many left...

I was under the impression that the BoS was the remnants of the US Army after the war, and the Enclave the remnants of the Government.



Anyway, they just seem too widespread and few in numbers to be a feasible threat(or ally, for that matter). Unless they start recruiting 'impure' people, which is unlikely, since they seem hellbent on destroying anyone or anything that has been within 5 feet of a radioactive isotope.

Yeah, their recruiting policies spell for disaster if they cannot gain with heavy loses, or suffer constant defeat. With every Enclave soldier/personnel dead, they take a big hit. Though, there were some in FO3 that did try to get the 'impure' to flock to their cause, but most likely to be lower caste citizens/practically slaves. They should try to rethink their strategy, it just isn't working whenever there is a hero around.

Owyn Lyons himself says that the Enclave is far from destroyed.
Since they moved East, they might have established numerous outposts. Some control Vaults may also be with the Enclave.

And I hope the Enclave didn't get destroyed. It's one of the most unique factions in science fiction.

Indeed. Hopefully, only the cliche'd, unbelievable, black-and-white Chaotic Evil Enclave from the East were destroyed.

I highly doubt they are even close to being destroyed. Besides being the main antagonist in Fallout 2 and 3 (which almost automatically guarantees they'll continue to "super hero death"), I think they have plenty of bases all over the US, and possibly the world. We might have taken off the head of the Enlcave in the western US; But looky in Fallout 3, a completely stable, organized, Enclave in the east. Also, http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/Les_Punk/Game/FO2EnclaveRigMap3.jpg map from the oil rig in FO2 always stuck out to me. You can see a dot at the Enclave camp in California, and also another one near DC. I would assume the rest of the dots are other Enclave bases/vaults/outposts.

Encalve hurt? Sure. Encalve destroyed? I think not. I see the string's that control the system, the enclave are so still very large.

Nonsense. Enclave of the West was even more black-and-white.
They were going to use a poison which would have killed everything mutated on the globe. If they had won, they would have died themselves because of lack of oxygen.
Plus it many times appeared they were evil for the sake of being evil.

At least in Fallout 3 the Enclave's human side realized how stupid and insane the FEV is.

Fallout 3 Enclave also wan't chaotic by any means. It was different because only the Enclave's military half survived in 2242.

I'm sure they'll crawl out of nowhere and find another stash of weaponry somewhere like they always do. The Enclave base in Navarro was never destroyed in the NCR, so why should we believe that Raven Rock and Adams AFB were the only D.C. area Enclave assets?

Oh wow, thanks so much for posting the link to that map! I had suspected that the Enclave had spread its influence quite widely as well and that map really seems to support that thinking.

It's been 200 years of development for them. Surely over time they've established super secure 'pure' colonies around the globe where new generations are being born and raised and trained. Perhaps some of those red dots actually indicate where some of them are.

Here's an interesting major DLC-level quest new-worldspace mod idea: A new Enclave threat rears its head in the Capital Wasteland, only this time when defeated the Lone Wanderer is able to track them in their retreat somehow. Eventually, the story leads to the discovery of one of these colonies. Perhaps most parents of fighting age would be deployed, but there would be many children. Future Enclave soldiers and scientists, but still children.

It might make for a neat moral dilemma for the Lone Wanderer.

Just depends on how much of "Fallout 3: Van Buren" you take into account....

I just finished playing fallout 2. During the ending it is said that: "The destruction of the Enclave erased all trace of president Richardson from history and now the title "President" is used simply boogie man used to frighten children."

If this is the case why are the enclave in fallout 3? why do we still have to see them again in fallout new vegas? why is Richardson talked about in fallout 3?

The Enclave should not have been in fallout 3. Since they were well they got their asses kicked again. So I would not like to see them again.

Before they left for the Oil Rig, they left some of their men to guard the Super Computer codenamed Eden, basically an exact copy of ZAX. Eden had originally been created to serve as a monitoring system for the Raven Rock military base. He slowly became self aware and began to study the extensive archives left to him, mainly those of the American government. His favorite tales in the database were those about the American presidents, so he modeled his own personality on information based in those archives. He also became the presidential adviser for President Richardson and when the News of West Coast Enclave Destruction reached the East, he ordered the survivors (mostly scientists) under the leadership of a high-ranking military scientist, Autumn, to relocate to East Coast and started to rebuild the Enclave under his command.

So yeah, there's your answer.

Makes sence I guess. I still think they should have stayed dead after fallout 2. Fallout 3 they are dead yet again. Enclave should just be splinter groups in the east at best. Back west (New Vegas) they should not be there at all.

The people hate them. NCR and Brotherhood would have taken what was left of them out. Any that escaped would have gone to DC to raven rock. Only to be killed off for good in fallout 3.

Enclave was not in fallout tactics. This means that they have no bases or plans in the Midwestern United states. The Devs of Black Isle were smart enough to think of using a new bad guy. Only place they had left was in the DC area and they were taken out there.

Any Enclave left would just give up. If they play a major rule again in any future games I vote of their name to be changed to the "whack-a-moles" because they keep popping up even after they get their heads bashed in.

It think someone out there made the same whack-a-mole" comment before I am not sure.

Honestly, depending on how you view the Original Fallout 3: Van Buren vs Fallout 3: Bethesda's Interpretation really will shape what happened to the remnants of the US Government.

The Classic Fan: Believes that remnants from the "Oil Rig" survived and are now running their operations out of Camp Navarro with a limited presence in the Southwest and potentially other operations in the CONUS.


Fallout 3 Fan: Believes that all US Forces have relocated to D.C. and are now based at Site R(Raven Rock), which has been destroyed. Furthermore Colonel Autumn was killed and the remnants mopped up by Lyon's BOS.


Now obviously there may also be other interpretations that exist, though these tend to be the two major Fallout philosophies.

I am a big Classic Fan. I feel that the base at Navarro would have been taken out by the Brotherhood. Reason one It is full of high tech. Reason Two: the Enclave are no longer backed up by numbers from the oil rig. Three: They became leaderless and many would just give up. Not getting paid why stay behind?. With the Rig gone the brotherhood would strike. Therefore what was left of the Enclave would be gone.

There is no mention of the enclave in tactics, no Enclave bases in the Midwestern United states. Where else could they be?
If anything the enclave would have tried to find Vault Zero and use the Robot army there. They did not do that because they were taken out in fallout 2. If black isle kept going I am sure we would not have seen the Enclave as the main bad guys ever again.

With the DC stuff added. Reason four. Anyone that could lead after fallout 2 would have gone to raven rock. Raven Rock was taken out in fallout 3.


If you include Van Buren and it's not really canon because it was not made. Reason five : A war between NCR and Brotherhood would push the brotherhood to get more high tech. To take vertibirds and communications, from Navarron.

And I'm also a classic fan, except I learned how to accept that the world isn't fair.

Anyway, Enclave research facilities was mentioned in Van Buren . You can even continue their research project (Project HERMES, ARES, ATHENA, ARTEMIS, APOLLO, etc.)

It's a damn shame that they left Van Buren, I really want ATHENA Power Armor and APOLLO Laser Pistol...

I agree it is a shame about Van buren. I think that the enclave could be working on projects but it is not likely. Van buren should have been made but it was not so it's not really canon. Only know are parts of it seeing light with New vegas because the Devs on Van Buren are working on FNV.

The Enclave as a big powerful enemy does not is just not right.