Well now, it's cow come to an important decision for my Independent, Daveney.

I'm playing Daveney as a caring, but pragmatic sort. People before traditions, choices before despotism, personal freedoms before security. On the flipside, she's a very legal type, holding the Rule of Law as the highest possible virtue. The Legion is doomed, and that is written in stone. The NCR needs to get it's house in order, so it will be spared as many casualties as possible and tricked off Hoover Dam. They currently beleive that Davneney is working to bring the Mojave under their rule.

House is already dead. The securitron army is mine. The Enclave Remnants are on her side, as well as the Boomers and -surprisingly- the Khans. The Omertas will be wiped out, the White Gloves spared, and the Chairmen (under Swank) integral to the running of New Vegas and Daveney's expanding empire.

Now is the time to decide if the Mojave chapter of the Brotherhood lives or dies.

Thing is, Daveney's backstory in my mind is that she's Midwest Brotherhood. An exiled but very heroic Inquisitor that's had said status lifted and would be welcomed back with celebrations and open arms if she chose to return, but feels she can do more for her chaptermates and people acting as an independent operator, and soon to be ruler of Vegas and the Mojave. Even with her background though, she can make a case for destroying the Mojave chapter of the Brotherhood. Not only are they not her brothers, as her chapter is considered rogue and is entirely on it's own, but they pose a significant threat to her power base, as possibly to that of her home chapter once she reestablishes contact.

On the flipside, if she can reestablish contact...they're still technically of the same organization. If she destroys them, any chance of finding common ground between West and Midwest will be lost. There is also Veronica to consider, her dear friend. She's chosen to stay with her chapter and family, despite what it will certainly do to her in the long run. Either choice will bring great pain to Daveney's friend and confidant. She'd also be betraying Veronica's trust and robbing her of the choice she made. The latter is the far graver crime is Daveney's view. The right to make ones own choices are beyond sacred to her.

Daveney is hard enough to destroy the Mojave chapter if she must...the choice is if she has to be. She's made very brutal, harsh choices in her time as an Inquisitor, some of them condemned whole tribes and towns to death so others could live. Her hands, and her conscience, are by no means clean. She does often doubt her decisions, but will face their consequences head on without so much as a whimper and stands by her choices resolutely once they are made.

Kill the Mojave chapter, betray a friend and poison any chance to mend the way between two chapters as well and any hope of peaceful coexistence, or spare them and possibly court a bloody war in the future as well as possibly poison any chance of lasting peace with the NCR?

I think she should do what truly great men do when they need to make tough decisions for which there is no real "right" answer. Flip a coin.

NCR vs Legion? Flip a coin. Help Powder Gangers or Goodsprings? flip a coin. Assault Carbine vs All-American? Coin time. Nuka-Cola or Sunset Sarsparilla? Bring on the nickel.

In all seriousness, I think she should spare the Brotherhood. Mostly because Veronica is the only person in the Mojave I have reservations about hurting.

-Nukeknockout

If Veronica has gone back to them, then there is a chance to turn their ways around.

A small chance is better than no chance.

Spare the Brotherhood. They have cool armour.

I'd take then out, as much as I hate to say it war is war and you already know the Mojave chapter will oppose a independent Vegas.

The Brotherhood is a danger to the lives and property of the people of the Mojave. The organization cannot be allowed to exist if you want to retain your authority and protect the law-abiding and independent communities of the region. I'd kill them, if I were you. If there was option to allow them turn in their weapons and Brotherhood uniforms and symbols and let the BoS's individuals peacefully assimilate into whatever community they see fit (like the Enclave remnants for example), I'd do that. That option does not exist in the game however so you have to do what you have to do.

Veronica made her decision to rejoin them so she has to live with whatever choices you make as the one who holds most of the chips in the Mojave.

They might not, if Vegas was run by one of their own.

And an independant Vegas would be the best for the Brotherhood as everyone else wants them dead.

True but I'm not sure if they'd see her as one of their own or not. They might actually see her as a traitor since the Mojave Brotherhood sticks to the codex so tightly and the Midwestern Brotherhood has kind of split off to do their own thing.

Well, how have the Brotherhood been treating Daveney?

If you are friendly with them, you should save them. If not...

If you have any regard for public safety, opposition to traditionalist despotism and the like, you end those pathetic boyscout terrorist raiders.

Free power armor for all! I recommend not blowing up the bunker though, just kill the Brotherhood. Thus allowing some smarter factions (like yourself) use Hidden Valley for better, saner ways.

Yes and no. It's good for the MBoS, problematic for the citizens of Vegas and NCR. Without NCR to threaten them, it's stated that the BoS will either raid caravans or patrol the highway whilst taking from people anything they deem 'inappropriate'. Simply put, NCR is the leash on the BoS. Personally I'm of the sentiment of House that they should just be wiped out.

According to the endings, the only real 'good' ending for the BOS is if you made a peace treaty between them and the NCR and then support NCR in the final battle, but I like to think that Independent Couriers are a bit more flexible and cunning than the devs give us credit for

In your case, (and many others, in fact), there is no reason why your girl can't simply overthrow the elder. Assuming that you've supported McNamara, you could still potentially overthrow him whenever you want through the codex as suggested by Hardin. By using their own stubbornness against them, the courier could effectively run the mojave chapter as she sees fit if she can manipulate the elder. And in any case, if Daveney is as pragmatic as you say, look at it this way: if you can somehow convince the Mojave chapter to change their ways and reintegrate with the Midwest, then the potential benefits for everyone is huge, however unlikely that might be. But if you simply destroy them as soon as you can, then there will be NO chance of reintegration whatsoever. And considering how you have a securitron army AND pretty much every single native mojave faction on your side, you can take out the Mojave chapter whenever you want. If so, then why be hasty and do it before the battle of Hoover Dam?

Hearing that from an Enclave supporter sports some decent irony, eh? :tongue:

I'd say spare them. Going on a pre-emptive killing spree wouldn't suit your character, and they are just way to few in numbers to consider the threat some people are trying to imply.
McNamara's unwillingness to soften up their codex will ensure that won't change at all. They are in their last breaths, a few more years, and they will have fallen victims to their own rigid code of conduct.
Until then, they can serve your Indy New Vegas by making the streets a bit saver.
You should also consider the possibility of the NCR trying to *re-claim* New Vegas, so having some potential mutual allies in your backhand is a good thing

Well for one the Enclave was a democracy up until Fallout 3 (where Eden wisely points out that America is hardly capable of holding elections) and they couldn't really be called traditionalist as they are constantly seeking new ways to achieve their goals, their ideology is perhaps old-fashioned but it's not what they believe in. It's what they are, the direct successor to the pre-war government and as such their duty is to restore the pre-war government with minimal changes. Everything else is fair game.
They have a goal and in they are democratic and even a bit liberal in their policies. The Enclave allows women to serve in its military, constantly works to utilize new technology and they let people leave the Enclave if they want to (there are more Enclave deserters seen in Fallout games than of any other faction - and the Enclave has never done a thing to hunt them down).

I'm a Brotherhood supporter, I am biased. Spare them.

This isn't an Enclave vs Brotherhood discussion. It's whether to spare the Brotherhood based on the character discussed in the first post.

Personally, I think that sparing the Brotherhood is the only option considering the role play in question. As a diplomatic type I dont think that it is consistent to destroy an isolated tribe that keeps their business to themselves.

Further to this, it is the friendship with Veronica that must clinch it. If she had gone to the Followers of the Apocalypse, then maybe destroying the Mojave Brotherhood would be an option. But destroying it now would betray you and her alike.

You know what needs to be done. Or not, in this case. :thumbsup:

Just to confirm... you're basically becoming Ashur?
Cause I'm pretty sure this is how his story started out.
:hubbahubba:

They were outright fascists, seeing the wastelanders as mutants who should be eradicated to make room for *pure-strain* humans, and so they tried. Not once, but twice.
That is as evil and racist as it can get, and some notches above confiscating an occasional Laser Pistol. :hubbahubba:
But yeah, let us not derail this thread

Considering Daveney's stance on slavers (ie: execute with extreme prejudice) no way. Oh, she'll turn Vegas into the capital of a New Empire, that is for certain, but she's no Ashur. Remember, she gets her lessons on organization from the (Warrior led) MWBoS, which is almost feudal is nature but free and equal. In return for protection, education, freedom and prosperity all Daveney asks for is loyalty, solidarity, light taxation and a "tithe" of blood (recruits) every five years.

I could make a massive post of what I have in mind, but I'm still working on it. My Exodus tabletop RPG book is still in the mail, and I want to keep my campaign setting secret from certain people that read this board.

Oh, and the BoS has been spared. For now. But if/when Daveney has to strike even Veronica will know there was no other choice.

Who?

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/A._Ron_Meyers, http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Henry, http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Arcade_Gannon_(Van_Buren), http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/William_Brandice, and http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Cannibal_Johnson to some degree.

That's five, all but one (Brandice) plot important characters, quest givers and companions.. How many open Brotherhood deserters we have seen? None. Legion? None. NCR? The few unnamed goons in Primm.

Erm, they just had to flee after the NCR launched a full scale campaign against Navarro. That can hardly be considered *deserting*. Arcade was a little baby at the time.
The Enclave was wiped out, leaving just a couple of survivors, the *Remnants*.
You're messing things up, bro.

A. Ron Meyers deserted well before the Enclave's destruction, as did Doc Henry. Arcade Gannon's Van Buren incarnation served in the Enclave although did indeed desert after the Oil Rig incident, but it still counts as it seems to have been voluntary defection from an active military post. William Brandice is paranoid about the Enclave hunting him, which hints that he deserted by his own decision. Cannibal Johnson is just a wuss who defected without desertion - his seditious activities harmed his comrades more when he was in than when he was out.

How does all that prove any of your points?
Brandice was just an Enclave soldier fleeing from the NCR after the downfall of Navarro.
To quote Cpt. Meyers about the Enclave: "rich old bastards who didn't want to give up their power."
Ok, Henry deserted from Navarro before the NCR attacked, I'll give you that.
According to his colleague Schreber, he was displaying "sympathies for the mainland mutants." (by that Schreber meant the humans living on the mainland). You can also read that some soldiers were punished for his escape.
Cannibal Johnson had nothing of pure disgust of the Enclave's inhuman views and actions, and tried to sabotage them from within.
I think that topic was discussed over and over, there is just no way of portraying the Enclave as "democratic" or "liberal" or "good".
They are an allegory for conservative ideas gone to hell, like the 3rd Reich. Thus they've also been attempting a Holocaust.
Similar to their RL example, their propaganda tried to sell this as doing mankind a favor.
But if anything, it just proves how perverted and corrupted the minds of these people have been.

I wasn't trying to prove anything. All I said was that the Enclave doesn't care if one of their members desert. They pay no attention to them, and they even let Meyers return to the Oil Rig with his tanker without any questions.