Hi!

What is the max possible range to kill someone witth sniper in Fallout New Vegas?Would appreciate if someone here could add videos or screenshots of very long range kill with sniper rifle,i was thinking about this because i just watch an video in battlefield 3 what the player does 961M range kill,marksman headshot,video below :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2fvy4-BT9E&feature=related

Fallout New Vegas has an mod what show you the ranged between you and the enemie what you killed?If yes,please paste me the link,i would like to install it on my game.

Honestly? I dunno. I don't really care, either. I do know the weapon with the longest theoretical range is the Gauss Rifle, which Energy Weapon users would argue is a "sniper rifle". So be prepared for a little bit of controversy if people respond.

I've made some pretty fair long-range kills. Assuming one of Fallout's large cars is about 4-5M, I've made shots at least 250M away, which is far enough for most practical purposes. I'm not convinced NPCs spawn much further away.

-Nukeknockout

I have my game graphics set so that objects and npc's appear at max drawable distance- and I've sniped them dead out as far as I could see them before they'd disappear into the 'haze', as it were. So whatever the max drawable distance is, that's how far you can kill stuff.

It is possible to get super long kills with most weapons as the bullets don't fall like in Battlefield 3.

Also I'm pretty sure bullets disappear when they get out of your draw distance, or that just may be my missle launcher shot. Once I tried shooting lots of missles at the deathclaws across the river, and the missles would just disappear after so long, and I never got any news if I crippled one or got a critical.

Each projectile has a max distance that it travels. After that distance, it ceases to exist in the game world, and all are set to different values. Also, AFAIK, most projectiles are set "hit scan", which means they don't actually act like physics objects and their tragectory doesn't determine whether they hit or not. I believe, when a projectile is tagged "hit scan" that all projectile hit/miss calculations are done in the background. That's one of the reasons why we don't have realistic ballistics. Every projectile could have gravity effect it, but each projectile would have to not be tagged "hit scan", and that would create a ton of physics objects for the engine to track. Most systems couldn't handle this.

As for the max shot distance, I don't remember precisely what the distance in units is to max draw on PC, but I recall Josh stating that the shot from the sniper's nest to cottonwood cove's rooftop is somewhere around 200 yards. You've got to have draw distances pretty far out there to see an actor at that distance. I use a special test range cell that is measured out to 200 yards and I can see the actors at the far end, but you probably couldn't see them on the console versions. So basically, you're talking a maximum effective range of around 200-250 yards in game, which is, well, short as hell in real life. That's the main reason why the pistol cartridge lever-action rifles don't have that much of a spread penalty compared to the high velocity rifles. At those ranges, you're mostly inside point blank zero for just about anything fired from a rifle length barrel.

-Gunny

Hitscan is actually the simple type that goes "if the muzzle is pointed towards it, it dies", hence the name.

"Hitscan: If checked, the projectile will instantly ray-trace whether the target is impacted or not without performing in-flight collision detection and ballistic simulation. The damage will still be delayed according to the projectile speed versus the distance to the target. "

Thanks. I blame my mistake on old fart memory loss. At least that's my story. I'll edit the above post for clarity's sake.

-Gunny

I hope what next fallout can have grapichs like BF3 and a great range for player view and bullets,and some more realistic things....

While realism and all is nice, I just hope it has a great story and remains more RPG than FPS. Looking good and having more lifelike physics is just gravy on the sirloin. Fallout is already walking a thin line by going so far into FPS territory that the player's FPS skillz can negate their characters RPG stats and skills, which dilutes the whole point of the Fallout RPG system. If it devolves into just another CoD clone shooter, pretty or not, it's no longer of much interest to me.

Could you explain more details about it being FPS more than RPG almost?Cause i dont see something wrong in game,in my opinion,the game still is RPG and fun I just think what bethesda could work better for awesome grapichs like the games of today,you understand?And some good weapons and new,the game age is more advanced/old than us,in 2011,i dont think what would be a problem to have so good weapons of today,at least rare.

The assault carbine or carabine is one of weapons what we have today in world,i dont think what they have ruined or did something bad adding that kind of weapon,dont makes look like FPS or COD for me,still the old and fresh good fallout,just dont make them too powerful.

I think he's trying to say that he disapproves of the FPS aiming in Fallout. He disapproves because he's worried about the game basically becoming another crappy CoD/Battlefield rehash instead of the RPG we've known and loved.

In an FPS, even if you level up and gain new abilities, the primary determinator of success and failure is the player's ability to shoot straight and react fast. Even if your character is Bob the Pathetic(who as a character isn't smart enough to reload a 9mm Pistol), if the player can shoot straight and react fast, then Bob the Pathetic will take on and defeat Cthulhu.

In an RPG, the determinator of success and failure is the character's stats. Weapon damage, weapon accuracy, type of weapon, type of armor, health, regeneration, all are determined by leveling up and allocating skills. In an RPG, if your character is Bob the Pathetic, then you have exactly no chance of taking on Cthulhu in direct combat, no matter how good of a shot the player is. That said, in an RPG, Bob the Pathetic usually just focused his skills somewhere other than "shoot people in the face", and can use this knowledge to defeat the end boss, played here by Cthulhu.

As for your comment on weapons...Fallout has no hatred of "Assault rifle" style weapons, and in fact has great respect for them. IMO, the best overall Small Gun of FO1 was the Assault Rifle. It is merely that the technical name of a weapon isn't exactly important in an RPG unless there's some great reason. Hence, the Minigun is called "Minigun" while the unique CZ57 Avenger is called such. In an RPG, the capabilities of the M16A1 and the AK-74U are close enough that only one is going to be in-game, and it will only be called "Assault Rifle".

-Nukeknockout

somebody likes cthulhu

Cthulhu is iconic. I can say the name, and people get the gist of what I mean. Doesn't mean I appreciate the character or the books he/it/whatever is featured in.

-Nukeknockout

Yeah- what he said. Fallout NV already blends a certain amount of FPS shooter style play (freehand aiming, with iron sights or scopes), with traditional RPG stats-based combat modifiers and effects. But it's an imperfect blend, and it's still possible for even an average-skilled player to pretty easily own the enemies in the game, simply using ranged sneak sniping tactics with relatively low-powered early-game weapons. Even if you haven't put a lot of points into those weapons skills- solely because of the combination of freehand aiming and fixed weapons traits, which can be used to overcome the game's RPG limitations and make you an FPS killer.

So, increase the combat engagement range to 1,000 yards, over the rough max of 200 or so yards it is now? Heh, the poor AI enemies will be 5x more toast than they are already. No, to make the game even halfway challenging, and give your enemies any kind of chance at all, there has to be some kind of limitations on combat ranges and just how much accuracy you can get, from firing freehand. You're not fighting Johnny Smith down the street like you are in those online shooters, you're assassinating a dumb-axe computer AI enemy nowhere near Johnny's calibre of competition.

Now, on the front of making the game look better and the environments more real, I'm all for that. RPG's don't have to look good to be good... but there's no law that says they have to look like goat butt, either.

Dude,freehand aiming is normal for any kind of game?This game dont become an FPS cause of freehand aiming...In my opinion that dont give any advantage to you,just make things more real,needing to aim for zooming and accurary,nothing to do with FPS,scopes and iron sights are part of guns in real life,why you would bother to have them in fallout?Fallout still is RPG,nothing has changed to bad,we still level up and get points to chose wich skill to put on,perk and other stuff,we have an stats for every gun also,wich dont display in FPS,and what dont need to repair also,resuming : We still can build our character on our own and make what we want and have fun.
Adding longer view distance would not make unfair for NPCS...

His point is that FPS aiming allows low-level characters with 6 points in Guns to sneak snipe Geckos and stuff with a Varmint Rifle with impunity. This is only possible because the player, not the character, is calm and shoots straight. Heck, I've done that a lot. But in Fallout 1, trying to shoot someone with a rifle with less that 60% in Small Guns was just stupid, because your character clearly didn't know how to use a gun right, no matter how many other games the player had played, no matter how much practice the player had.

I don't know if it would be unfair to NPCs...but think about the Melee/Unarmed players. What do they do if they can suddenly be shot at from five times the distance? And what of the Minigun, the Missile Launcher, the Flamer, & Throwing Spears? Do they suddenly become useless? Better to keep the range high enough that sniping has an advantage but low enough that all forms of combat can be used successfully.

As is, he does have a point about how easy it is to kill NPCs and monsters as a sniper.

-Nukeknockout

Character progression and stats doesn't make something a RPG. Combat dictated by a random number generator weighted by your stats versus their stats does. On the other hand, manual aiming, while viewing the game world from a first person perspective, is pretty much the core definition of first person shooter. Freehand aiming is only normal for certain kinds of games: those from a first person or third person 3D perspective, which doesn't really include the majority of games; more games have a fixed perspective than anything else.

I disagree at a pretty fundamental level with Smokeyman: I'd prefer the Fallout franchise's core gameplay to move more towards FPS combat (which doesn't imply becoming a stupid CoD-style faux-real military FPS), but keep the story-telling and NPC interaction at the level it is in New Vegas. Don't get me wrong, I'm from the Fallout 1 and 2 era: I thought the first was ok and LOVED the second, but it was the game world, story-telling and decision making that I enjoyed, not the turn-based strategy combat. While I enjoy non-FPS games, I do happen to like FPS games (namely Jedi Knight, Team Fortress 2, Borderlands), and also like what the FPS style has done for non-combat gameplay in Fallout 3 and New Vegas (mainly New Vegas; combat was pretty barfy in Fallout 3) wherein you get fairly visceral feedback to both your, let's say diplomatic, decisions and your more violent decisions since you're looking out from the eyes of the character who you're making all the decisions for.

Queue

Nukeknockout,If an player with weak gun and skills plays in very hard he cant do that what he is possible to do in a FPS game on fallout in very hard,for me,very hard is like puting game at fair challenge and fun,maybe hard in the start but with it you earn great experience at combating in fallout,but dude,wait a second,would be booring if the player could not have a little more chance to beat monsters without his own skill,depending on only stats is boring,but it is a good idea friend,but a little of own player skill is not bad,and fallout now dont has it ( FPS exaggerating).
Maybe make something to make sniper dont have too much advantage if we could have longer range in-game?like,more expensive weapon,bullets and rare to find?My purpose on the game having greater range of view was for making it more real and better not for any advantage,sorry if you understand me wrong,250miles compared to real life is too poor,great if at least 500,you know,i have a little obesession for trying to defeat targets from very far,makes me feel good,calculating where to shot for the bullet hit the X target,it is just awesome Make you look like a pro also,imagine now an 500mile VATS shot following the bullet,like in 'The wanted' movie,awesome(I am not suggesting it to game,just ask to you think about).

i see the discusion going in some interesting direction. so i'll share my 2 cents on this matter.
man, am i glad that Fallout 1 was invented, and dragged F2 onto the market. Those were one type of a game. Classic RPG with a punchline (turn based combat where the character's skills would settle the outcome). In other real time rpg's the skill affects the power of shot and how much it passes trough enemie's armor (i.e. diablo series). and the player could miss. When F: tactics emerged i was pretty baffled by the real time combat. no more usual strategies (the player could still take on tbs combat).
F3 and F:NV are action style rpg's. a different breed. Again, whei i saw the first picture of F3 with a supermutant in VATS :poke: WTF
Where was the beloved Fallout? It needed playing to really enjoy it. FPS experience of the dystopian world of "fallout" is really amaizing. Can't stop.
The player has the choise (like in tactics) to take on tbs style or real time. In turn based (now it's VATS) the character's skills do what they're supposed to do, while on the other hand the player is using a fps like gameplay.

For my taste though the aiming of every weapon shoul be wobbly at first until some percentages are met.
It still is a rpg, not a fully fps game and a lvl 1 character shoudn't be able to (if he/she somehow get's his/her hand on an end game weapon) critical snipe everything in zoom sight. the pointer should move around very much at first so event the best human FPS player in the world won't make the shot. And finally as he reaches 100% only the weapons spread and stabillity to matter.

AMR in the hands of a specially build sniper character should be perfect, as for a melee character to be no more than a some sort of a club, not even close to sniper grade accuracy of the human player

I have separated your post to ease replying xP Just a convenience I use, nothing against you.

1: Depending on stats is what separates an RPG from an FPS. It's not an idea I just had, it's the fundamental definition of a Role-Playing Game. The reason for this is because you're playing a character, you're not yourself. I personally prefer having my character's success depend on the character. That way, If I'm having a bad day, one of my DID characters doesn't bite it for a stupid reason. That said, I fully appreciate the FPS perspective in FO:NV. It makes the world that bit more immersive, and it definitely makes it ten thousand times easier to survive than in the old-school RPGs. I just wish that my fairly steady aim didn't impact my character's ability to take on the NPCs.

2: I didn't think you were thinking about advantages. That's why I did. There's consequences to every little thing that is done, and it's important to see that it's all connected. If Guns snipers can shoot further, then NPC snipers will be programmed to take advantage too. If that happens, the distance a Melee/Unarmed/Minigunner/Flame trooper/Grenadier has to cross is vastly increased, thus increasing the amount of damage they'll take just getting to their target, necessitating greater armor and healing. As for the maximum range sniper, the AMR & YCS/186 can kill things almost before they realize they've spawned. Those are the expensive massive range weapons with heavy and rare ammunition.

It's ok to have an obsession for defeating a target from maximum range, in fact, that's a survival skill against Deathclaws. I personally prefer to get close enough to hear the monster breathing before I begin the attack. That said, I've played enough characters to realize that if one wants to snipe things, that character will snipe things.

3: If you're talking about being a "pro" gamer, I have no interest in looking like one. I'm not one. I play merely because it's fun for me, even if I don't make my character as strong as possible, even if I take hits, even if I pass over the AMR for Maria.

-Nukeknockout

No,I am talking about how awesome is to shot targets from very far range,requiring an good precision and aim from you,an awesome feel when you sucessfuly hit the target all that far,not talking about pro gamer,you really needed to say all those things?

No, I probably did not. I feel more like my character is stronger & braver when I'm using something that doesn't look like it'll work compared to the AMR/YCS, like Throwing Spears or a Power Fist. For me, an AMR is basic, easy...convenient...boring. I feel like I miss a lot of the game when I'm all focused on distance & sneak sniping. So it's personally not for me, which doesn't mean it's bad.

I just have little patience for "hardcoe" gamers or people trying to compete, so I probably overreacted.

-Nukeknockout

after doing sniping in my first playthrough, I actually have to agree, sniping too much really dumbs down the joy level in the game. I don't just mean the AMR< but all rifles that allow you to snipe, sure it gets fun after the first few shots, but after that, what's the challenge?..thus I became the Mad Bomber (or Demoman, your pick), which suits me well, nuking things and tossing grenades at unexpected dimwits and watching them juggle around in the air while flying, missing limbs nad hearing the others go "OHHH SH!T!!" is just a lovely enjoyment. Next playthrough I'm going for a pure melee/unarm build, gonna see how much fun that is.

My character now have 100 melee,i have so much fun with the bumper sword,looks like an warrior,if you are going to build an melee character,would be good to add rank 1 and 2 to toughtness perk,cause you are going to get too much damage,and an good set with DT,so much fun when i killed two deathclaw with boxing gloves haha but i almost died.