haha Gotcha I just solved my problem by sacrificing Azura's priestress. I have something against religion, and I want her champion's stuff, so I figured two stones one bird My rationale is that Daedra messing with the world is dangerous, so I gotta stop their agents however I can!


Now you are just using reductio ad absurdum.... There is a difference between "every possible option" and "a couple of options", some point between perfection and nothing. Market research can easilly show you what are the most commonly expected/demonstrated reactions when faced with different typical scenarios, and from there all you need is to work on your dialogues/quests.

I feel like the problem with bethesda isnt lack of imagination tho. Its lack of will to get off that old ass engine (with its limitations), and the fact that they appear to have put most of their ressources on the world with none left for its contents, hence the early "half-assed" release followed by what was announced as months of upcomming updates.

Typical MMO strategy actually: ran out of funding? Hype it, sell it, use the money to finish it while doing damage control. No amount of funding is going to completely revamp the quest system, unfortunaly. And for all the hate MMOs get on this forum... skyrim plays eerily similar to a single player MMO.

For the last time, you weren't FORCED to do anything, you shouldn't have killed those cultists you [censored].

"Sup, who the heck are you guys anyway?"
- "Oh we are these evil cultists you see, we worship this godess of lies and destruction. If you want to join us, lie to a man, lure him here and kill him"
"You... you are dangerous man, I better take you all out to protect the realm"
- "Oh, you killed my cultists, you pissed me off! Now become my slave muaha! Lie to a man, lure him here and kill him

*autoaccept*

I think none of us would be here if we couldve just said "you know what? [censored] no!". Instead, because we have accepted the quest, it kinda feels (for me at least) like my character said "oh crap, yes ma'am!" without asking me first.

On a somewhat related note, I'm awesome, It's a fact. If you fail to recognise this obvious fact you're nothing but blind [censored] [censored] of whoever you consider awesome instead.

This has been this way in TES games since MW. You've been able to terminate some quests (Like Namira's, for instance) but most of them were stuck there unless you completed them. Choice, then again, has never been a core element of TES games like It's been for BioWare's or the Fallout series since the very beginning, Daggerfall's 6 endings being the only "big" example in the whole series. Choice in TES games has always come down to wwther you do or not something, probably being Skyrim the game with the most important "quest choices" to that matter (Sides in the Civil war, Paarthunax, Season Unending and choices for most of the Daedric quests, being this one and Molag Bal's the only "dark" quests that can't be terminated by pulling a different string).

I guess you left it out of your story, but when was the part where you were forced to do something?

you should just RP that you were tainted by the daedra and go on a murder spree

If being stupid is the new awesome, then yes, you are awesome.


So... if there is something crappy in previous games, we should leave it in all other games instead improving it?
Nice logic, bro!
Maybe we should return combat from previous games also since TES was never about dual-wielding and having a good combat.
Or how about we return graphics from Arena also?

You are a perfect example of twits I was talking about. >_>

Brother read my post again, I was being ironic, and apparently i was successful in my irony XD. My position is that ppl has the right to complain about a product they bought.

Wait a minute....you are RPing a "Justicar", but Astrid contacted you? So you killed a crabby old lady simply because...she's crabby? That doesn't seem very holier-than-thou.

Woah, really mature and well thought response, I'm sure that took you a while to come up with. Congratulations, friend. Now try avoiding your rage and the use of ad hominem arguments and you might have something interesting to say



I for one, would rather see more content than different options for what already exists, say, more guild quests. Of course, to each Its own, but I guess enraging is way easier to you than stopping, then thinking for a moment on what you're about to type.

But you are not auto-accepting the quest. You are auto-recording its existence. When you walk by a farm, it gets recorded on your map. You don't have to go inside. You don't have to talk to anyone there. You just have a record of what you have learned so you can act on it if you so choose.

I don't think Azura's priestess was evil, just she was dedicated to Azura because she gave her a vision that saved her life when Red Mountain erupted. If you wanted, you could just roleplay that your character is against the Old Gods (now known as "Daedra") and their worship, but willing to side with them if there is more good to be done in it than bad rather than "I must be good and never side with evil". I always loved messing with those who played characters like that (especially if they're Paladins) in my D&D campaigns by having them choose between allowing (example) a succubus who has legitimately fallen in love with a mortal King, who was just one of her victims. Choosing between true love or killing a demon because their code demands killing any demon under the principle that all demons are evil.


You know what is ironic? You just killed all of her cultists, and Boethiah only accepts the best warriors. You may think you just pissed her off by saying "No" and slaughtering 10 of her followers, while Boethiah is likely even more interested in you because you just bested 10 warriors. You trying to spite her basically only impressed her XD


I do think that Bethesda should leave it so that you automatically mark it in the journal, even if you say "No". You can go into the journal and move it to a list for quests you won't do rather than just deleting them. This way you don't forget them, they're out of the main list, and you can still do them under "well, I thought about it; I guess I'll help you with this". I don't agree with the "they're forcing me", but I do agree with the fact that there isn't enough freedom in how you react. It is part of why I have a love-hate relationship with the idea of essential NPCs being unkillable. Why can't I kill Elenwyn the second time we meet her? It is the last time we see her in the game. Why can't I kill Delphine and put an end to the now short-sighted, backwards Blades? Or at least have the option to punch her in the face and walk out with her having an actual reaction rather than it resulting in an immediate fight? While there isn't enough freedom in this regard, I wouldn't put my hopes into Bethesda putting choices like that into the game; they never have put choices in that were any more than "Yes or no?" (very few exceptions).

How many quests were you forced to accept that you couldn't do anything about and were constantly reminded about in previous games? Morrowind and Oblivion gave you topics to talk about with specific people, and upon talking about those topics would you get the quest, while in Skyrim you get the quest immediately upon hearing about it no matter whether you were interested in it or not. Often, you're not given the choice to avoid it, and even when you can say 'no' it's more like a 'not yet'.

That's essentially the problem here. Not that there's no choice in how to handle the quest, but that quests are thrown into your logbook without you having a say in the matter and have no choice in how to deal with it. So, even though you don't want to do them and never wanted to do them, they clutter your logbook and constantly remind you that they're there to do. Some of these quests even have associated quest items, which you can only sell off or drop after completing the quest.

Again, I guess you didn't read the in game book about how people got Boethia's attention ? Where out of 10? cultists who were trying to impress Boethia by declaring their devotion they were all killed by him/her until only two were left and the second to last deceived and killed the last one to prove his devotion. So, with your good intentions, you killing those cultists proved you were ruthless and might be a worthy champion. Road to hell and all that.

Yes, a few more options many cases would be nice but since everyone has a different opinion about exactly where those extra choices are needed ...
Yeah the log book is quite horrible. Why they couldn't have the UI make it look like a journal like in Oblivion ? is a definite step backwards. An option to hide quests would also be great. Abandoning I don't know since then you might just get it again by hearing the rumor again or something.


Yeah, your post was very clearly sarcastic, not subtle to any degree at all. I didn't say that YOU thought OP was ridiculous. Your post more conveyed the opinion that you thought people answering the OP thought he was ridiculous for complaining.
I was saying (or trying to say) that I don't mind people complaining about a game they bought but I might think:

What, there are tons of bugs here and THIS is something that you get hung up about ?

Especially funny when they complain about things that are false. You know, they complain about having to join the thieves guild to do the main quest when that's is mostly due to their own laziness.
Or like in this thread, OP saying that because there was an option to do something he felt the game forced him to do it.

People getting irritated/angry and complain about actual bugs, ( backward flying dragons, removed resistances, book eating book shelves or bugged quests where the guy you're supposed to meet spawns inside some rock ) those I fully agree with.

I totally agree with you: I am (always) roleplaying a chaotic good or even lawful good character in RPG's, but in Skyrim that's not entirely possible. In my opinion it is such a bad design to throw quests at you without giving you the chance to actually decline them! For example, in Riften I tabbed out of the conversation this Brynjolf guy forced on me only to have my journal add "Listen to Brynjolf's scheme" to my list. Why? I have absolutely no intention to do this, so why can't I simply tell him to get lost and decline the quest (line) or have it fail?


Exactly.

You sir, were not forced to join Boethia's Cult. You were forced to accept a quest in your log, which you can either pick to do or basically deny.


Thanks bye.

i did the 'cannibal quest', in makrath and killed them all, the quest was complete but a failure

In other games, players seek quests.

In Soviet Skyrim quests seek you

I cannot go into Falkreath any more without any single stupid guard asking me about a dog. Hitting TAB/B is of no use since the same FORCED dialogue will show up next time you approach a guard.

When I see someone in the wild running at me, arrows start flying at them. :flame:

As for Boethia's Calling I was assaulted by a "cultist". As soon as I picked up a book from his dead body the first part of the quest was completed and disappeared from my quest log. Opening the book will prompt the player to visit the shrine. If I don't open the book the quest doesn't start. Too bad I cannot drop it, along with another dozen or so "essential" items belonging to quests I did not even wanted to start!

I have this cool looking ancient dagger of unique appearance. Found it in some ruins. It's marked as a quest item so I cannot drop, sell or store it anywhere. Apparently, this item is essential for a quests which opens up once the player reaches lvl 90 in alteration. WTF?!? I'm a warrior who never, ever touched a spell once! Why I got this dagger in inventory? I've got my inventory full of notes, books, useless items and whatever. For the same stupid reason I cannot complete the "forbidden legend" because it would require the character to join the college faction.

In Skyrim quest handholding reaches a new incredible level. Quests items shoun't appear outside quests if a developer is afraid player may misplace them.

Quest-journal's Syndrome.

It's a syndrome you contract by playin too much Elder Scrolls.
Isn't it obvious?!

Surely I suffer from the same stuff, but, of course in minor scale.
You'll have to deal with that. I tried to kill all the boethia cultists but they're even too strong or essential. :s

It would be nice to have actual quests choices you know like RPGs should have? Most of the quests in Skyrim are very linear and bland that makes you feel like your character isn't really different from someone elses. If there is a group I don't wanna join or what not I should be able to have another option to finish the quest off. (Like a certain quest chain I won't mention that's in game.)

I play a relatively good character, but I did want to do this quest. I just chose the most distasteful follower I could find - Ahtar, the Headsman from Solitude. Guy was a jerk and karma was kind of fun.

You can also just hire some scumbag merc from a tavern and take them on a one way trip, there are plenty of them who look like they deserve it.

Yeah, just leave the quest alone, that's what I'm doing. It's been sitting in my quest log since level 30. I'm now level 51.

Agree with op. Also adding the whole dialogue quest accepting system is incredibly unpolished.

I've a growing list of quests i've got no intention of doing.

And so many lost opportunities to tell daedric princes and npc's like Brynjolf to shove it. That would have been much more fun than ignoring all the entries every time you bring up your journal.

You all have OCD for telling him he has OCD 5 times.

I have OCD for counting.