Is Malacath an Evil Daedra?

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:51 am

The Daedra, by their nature, are compelled to foster change on Nirn, and each of them fosters the said change according to their spheres. They care for very little other than advancing their own agendas, because they really cannot appreciate or comprehend anything beyond these agendas. In a way they are like a kid with a magnifying glass setting an anthill on fire just to see the ants run around.
User avatar
Jani Eayon
 
Posts: 3435
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:19 pm

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:40 am

Sanguine has always reminded me of Dionysos.
Superficially a god of partying, but it means partying hard all the way to human sacrifice.
He embodies an extatic affirmation of life, revelry in being, and also the hangover.
Note that the word Sanguine means optimistic, confident. But the word can also mean blood.


Nice definitions. I'll have to make sure to add them as an in-game book :)

BTW, what about Nocturnal?
User avatar
Glu Glu
 
Posts: 3352
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:39 am

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:50 am

1. Thank you for making a thread not complaining about the game.
2. :) thank you for bringing about a question I've been meaning to ask.

I think he is not Evil...but is considered evil due to liking Raw Power like others have said. People think of the Orcs as evil due to the wars they fought in/looks/how they practice their culture.

I actually like Malacath...He reminds me of Crom...
User avatar
John Moore
 
Posts: 3294
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:18 am

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:06 pm

Malacath itself is a ruse perpetrated by Boethia(sp), to draw Trinimac's followers away from him so they could be so cursed. But now, Trinimac really doesn't care what his followers call him, and has accepted the role of Malacath.

And if mehrunes is a god of revolution, he's more a god of failed revolutions that eat their own children.
User avatar
Joey Bel
 
Posts: 3487
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:44 am

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:41 am

Nice definitions. I'll have to make sure to add them as an in-game book :)

BTW, what about Nocturnal?


Nocturnal is the mistress of night. Mystery, the unseen and ununderstood.
Aquisition through deception, theft.
She is often worshiped by thieves, though she does not ask for followers and does not always acknowledge those that do worship her.
In that she seems quite like lady luck.

This is what the author of 'Invocation of Azura' says about Nocturnal:
"It was in an old and profane tome that I came upon the name of Nocturnal -Nocturnal the Night Mistress, Nocturnal the Unfathomable. As the book prescribed, I called to her on her holy day, the 3rd of Hearth Fire. At last I had found the personal mistress I had so long desired. I strove to understand her labyrinthine philosophy, the source of her mysterious pain. Everything about her was dark and shrouded, even the way she spoke and the acts she required of me. It took years for me to understand the simple fact that I could never understand Nocturnal. Her mystery was as essential to her as savagery was to Boethiah or treachery was to Molag Bal. To understand Nocturnal is to negate her, to pull back the curtains cloaking her realm of darkness. As much as I loved her, I recognized the futility of unraveling her enigmas"
User avatar
Lakyn Ellery
 
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:02 pm

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:28 am

His sphere involves knowledge, which in and of itself is neither good or evil - it's a tool that can be used for either.

In the book "http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Doors_of_Oblivion", there is a character who is traveling between the Daedric realms and when he comes to Hermeaus Mora's realm of Apocrypha he's ultimately unable to make himself leave because as a scholar his passion is learning and in that realm all the knowledge in existence can be found.

I suppose you could say that he's good in that he wants people to learn and value knowledge, but on the other hand he doesn't seem to care at all about what costs mortals have to endure in order to attain it - in that sense you could say he's amoral rather than just plain evil from a mortal perspective. He, like the other princes, just takes his particular sphere to its extremes. To the Daedra there isn't really a reason not to go all out, because they are truly immortal and have nothing of significance to lose from it.



He had you sacrifice one of each race in Oblivion....He's I guess Neutral Evil? Or Lawful Evil? He does it in the name of Knowledge, so that is a LAWFUL Cause, but the way he goes about it is...well Bad. lol
User avatar
Dark Mogul
 
Posts: 3438
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:51 am

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:22 pm

It's amuse me with all that crap about 'Evil Is just a perspective' .. I am sorry but if you bath in the blood of 100 virgin , Kill other for sport and enjoy seeing suffering and were born and forged in the flame of destruction .. There's a good chance you're not Mother Theresa.
I don't think 'evil' is a perspective in a fantasy setting with demon. Mehrune Dagon did not choose to do 'bad' .. Which mean he's evil . It's was not a choice for him. He's not crazy either. It's just how he was made. Which make him a Evil creature or god whatever.

A human that do bad just need medical help.
it's not like these Daedra have the freedom of choice like human have. Do they?

evil is a perspective, and your perspectiv is lacking knowledge and...well, perspective. dagon is destruction, not evil, he destroys stuff because it is in his nature, if you want to try and apply any label to any deadra "chaos" is a much better word to use, his end could be to help renew the world (like alduiin's) or to stop the world from being destroyed (he tried it before as the lepper demon, then alduiin turned him into dagon) which is far from evil even if he is chaotic

and tehy do have free choice (although the princes would rather use their nature, i know for a fact all the lesser deadra have a choice in who they serve and what they do)
User avatar
-__^
 
Posts: 3420
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:48 pm

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:58 am

He had you sacrifice one of each race in Oblivion....He's I guess Neutral Evil? Or Lawful Evil? He does it in the name of Knowledge, so that is a LAWFUL Cause, but the way he goes about it is...well Bad. lol


To be fair, he doesnt care if you trap a soul of a bandit you kill in self defence or an innocent.
In Skyrim he doesnt mind if its blood you draw yourself or collect from a kill someone else made.
If you must put an allignment on him, neutral.
User avatar
jaideep singh
 
Posts: 3357
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:45 pm

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:49 pm

I was speaking specifically about the Bosmer.

The Dunmer were changed by a curse from Azura.


Yeah, I sort of realized that after I posted, my bad
User avatar
Lawrence Armijo
 
Posts: 3446
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:12 pm

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:45 pm

To be fair, he doesnt care if you trap a soul of a bandit you kill in self defence or an innocent.
In Skyrim he doesnt mind if its blood you draw yourself or collect from a kill someone else made.
If you must put an allignment on him, neutral.


Indeed, as I said he's about getting knowledge regardless of the cost. The strict requirement to gain the knowledge is the souls or the blood in those cases, and that's all that matters - you could get them in a way most people would perceive as good by killing bad guys you'd kill anyways, or you could murder innocent people. To H-Mora that part just isn't relevant. (unless he's secretly trying to learn about what you would do when given such a requirement, which he may be given that the Daedra have a penchant for using mortals as playings)
User avatar
vanuza
 
Posts: 3522
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:14 pm

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:21 am

He had you sacrifice one of each race in Oblivion....He's I guess Neutral Evil? Or Lawful Evil? He does it in the name of Knowledge, so that is a LAWFUL Cause, but the way he goes about it is...well Bad. lol

That depends on who you kill, there's certainly no lack of people in Tamriel who deserve it.
User avatar
Damned_Queen
 
Posts: 3425
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:18 pm

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:51 pm

Daedra are neither good, nor evil. Their morality is alien.
User avatar
Nancy RIP
 
Posts: 3519
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:42 am

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:29 pm

No Daedra is 'evil', just as no Aedra is 'good'.

Malacath is a special case.
He used to be Trinimac, god of an early Aldmer triber. Boethiah tricked him into entering Boethiah's mouth so he could speak with Trinimac's voice.
Boethiah swallowed him.
When he had.. passed he had become Malacath, and his followers Orsimer.

How did Boethiah trick him?
User avatar
Lillian Cawfield
 
Posts: 3387
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:22 pm

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:02 am

he's kinda a jerk but not evil
User avatar
Danny Warner
 
Posts: 3400
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:26 am

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:49 am

How did Boethiah trick him?

Boethiah took the shape of Trinimac, to further convince some of the Aldmeri to listen to him, further changing them into the Chimer. Some accounts even have Boethiah's "eating" of Trinimac, a bit more literal than it should be. Some say that he was just "corrupted". This action changed Trinimac.
User avatar
Destinyscharm
 
Posts: 3404
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:06 pm

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:36 am

Malacath isn't 100% evil, he may not be the nicest Daedric lord but he's not completely evil. Heck he's one of the reasons why Mede was able to save Tamriel in Infernal City. He cares about the Orcs, I kinda wish he would do something about the 60 year life span.
User avatar
Alina loves Alexandra
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:55 pm

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:32 am

How did Boethiah trick him?


Nobody knows. It's all allegory and obscure religious texts. Boethiah is the Prince of Plots though, so trickery is his/her bread and butter.

Basically:

Boethiah tricks you into going down the dark alley, then bashes you over the head and takes your lunch money.
Mephala puts roofies in your drink, then ties you up in leather, has kinky six with you and five of your friends, and then writes a poem about it. You eventually die either from the roofies or from being tied up too long.
Dagon curbstomps you, then curbstomps your corpse, then curbstomps everyone in the five mile radius. Because he's always angry, all the time.
Molag Bal just bashes you over the head in broad daylight, and then raqes your possibly dead body. Possibly one piece at a time.
User avatar
brandon frier
 
Posts: 3422
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:47 pm

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:03 am

Nobody knows. It's all allegory and obscure religious texts. Boethiah is the Prince of Plots though, so trickery is his/her bread and butter.

Basically:

Boethiah tricks you into going down the dark alley, then bashes you over the head and takes your lunch money.
Mephala puts roofies in your drink, then ties you up in leather, has kinky six with you and five of your friends, and then writes a poem about it.
Molag Bal just bashes you over the head in broad daylight, and then raqes your possibly dead body. Possibly one piece at a time.

Yes, we know. I stated above how and why.
User avatar
Zoe Ratcliffe
 
Posts: 3370
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:45 am

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:15 pm

How did Boethiah trick him?


Unknown.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-changed-ones
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-true-nature-orcs

It is just said he tricked him.
In some accounts it is a battle between them, and Boethiah took Trinimac's form after he defeated him, and talked to his followers in disguise.
Mythically amounts to the same thing I suppose.
User avatar
Anthony Santillan
 
Posts: 3461
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:42 am

Previous

Return to V - Skyrim