Unique NPCs

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:12 pm

I've always wondered why NPCs don't use high level spells. There are plenty of books in-game that go into detail about how fearsome battlemages can be, or how powerful wizards and mages are capable of unrivaled destruction... but all the magic using NPCs are completely lackluster. As much as we suffer from the limited spell system, NPCs suffer even more.

Why hasn't Bethesda created NPCs that are on our level, or even higher? How come NPCs who are supposed to be immensely powerful can't cast master-level magic? How come they don't have their own unique spells that we cannot learn? It all seems so cookie-cutter to me, because even if their names are different and their skills scattered a bit, they're all so similarly underwhelming compared to our character.

Yeah, I get it; we're Dragonborn, some prophesied hero, and we're supposed to save the world -- from Alduin, though, and that's it. We aren't a god. All we can do is shout, and there are others in-game who can do the same (both apparent and hinted at). It doesn't make sense for us to be the strongest around.
User avatar
Kay O'Hara
 
Posts: 3366
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:04 pm

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:29 am

More importantly than being Dragonborn, you are a Hero, with a capital H. Heroes in past ages have done almost anything, both slaying gods and becoming them. The fact that you are Dragonborn only indicates that you are the Hero.

As for WHY....i'd say it's probably because the incredibly long charge time on them would make the caster so much of a target that they'd almost inevitably die before they could finish, invalidating the point of the spell in the first place.
User avatar
Sharra Llenos
 
Posts: 3399
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:09 pm

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:33 am

Why hasn't Bethesda created NPCs that are on our level, or even higher?


They did exactly that once, not a very good experience if you ask me. (But mainly because almost everything leveled to you)

If people complain that they are too powerful in Skyrim (Almost the same kind of poweful-nes at high-levels of Morrowind if you ask me) they complained even more about how you almost never felt powerful in Oblivion.
User avatar
Fiori Pra
 
Posts: 3446
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:30 pm

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:28 pm

I don't mean a literal level, but if you read any book in-game about someone from the past, they're depicted as being completely badass. Yet as soon as you put down that book, all you see are frail NPCs. It doesn't make sense.

Demiser, you aren't a "Hero". You're mentioned in a prophecy. A specific prophecy with a very specific task. That's it. Once you've fulfilled that task, you're done. You might have a nice title and you might have some great gear and powerful shouts, but you aren't a god. You aren't going around and killing "other" Aedra or banishing Daedric princes.

Amauri, I don't understand how being the most powerful thing in-game is a good thing. Why even have lore if each new character the player becomes is the most badass of all? Just throw that in a book and you're done.


This is an RPG, from what I've read, not an action-adventure game. Our goal isn't to kill everything and anything. Our goal is to role-play. How can we role-play in a world where we're the strongest entity capable of interacting with it? Aside from scripted occurrences, nothing beats once we're up in level and wearing some nice gear. I don't think that's realistic at all, and I've never felt it was. Divayth Fyr from Morrowind was over 4,000 years old, from what I remember. How can you justify that even being relevant to put in-game when a character that's less than a few hundred days old can slay him without a problem? The world is like cardboard.
User avatar
CHANONE
 
Posts: 3377
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:04 am

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:52 pm

Amauri, I don't understand how being the most powerful thing in-game is a good thing. Why even have lore if each new character the player becomes is the most badass of all? Just throw that in a book and you're done.


This is an RPG, from what I've read, not an action-adventure game. Our goal isn't to kill everything and anything. Our goal is to role-play. How can we role-play in a world where we're the strongest entity capable of interacting with it? Aside from scripted occurrences, nothing beats once we're up in level and wearing some nice gear. I don't think that's realistic at all, and I've never felt it was. Divayth Fyr from Morrowind was over 4,000 years old, from what I remember. How can you justify that even being relevant to put in-game when a character that's less than a few hundred days old can slay him without a problem? The world is like cardboard.


I don't think that we should always be the most powerful being in the whole province, I just said that Bethesda's past experiences with leveled enemies weren't good. I think that this is a hard discussion, it's a discussion of realism vs. freedom. I would go with realism, but I know that much people prefer the freedom to be a overpowered killer.
User avatar
Darren Chandler
 
Posts: 3361
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:03 am

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:49 am

I don't mean a literal level, but if you read any book in-game about someone from the past, they're depicted as being completely badass. Yet as soon as you put down that book, all you see are frail NPCs. It doesn't make sense.


So... kinda like real life? How many "bad ass heros" do you think there are walking around in Skyrim?
User avatar
Jeff Tingler
 
Posts: 3609
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:55 pm

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:50 pm

We aren't a god.

Just a god-killer
User avatar
Stat Wrecker
 
Posts: 3511
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:14 am

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:31 am



You aren't a "Hero". You're mentioned in a prophecy. A specific prophecy with a very specific task. That's it. Once you've fulfilled that task, you're done. You might have a nice title and you might have some great gear and powerful shouts, but you aren't a god. You aren't going around and killing "other" Aedra or banishing Daedric princes.

I don't understand how being the most powerful thing in-game is a good thing. Why even have lore if each new character the player becomes is the most badass of all? Just throw that in a book and you're done.




Why shouldn't you be the most powerful character in the game, or in the world, or in the history of the world if that's what you want to be? If I ran into someone more powerful in Skyrim, who had better adventures, and was the "hero" of the land, I would have asked Bethesda why I couldn't have been him/her instead of my piddly little tag-along.

The game isn't designed for you to be a minion or some regular Joe, and so they developed the prophesy of the Dragonborn to justify why you get all of the power and accolades. Anyway, if you want to roleplay someone who isn't very powerful, I think that option is available to you. Wear the kinds of clothes and armor that you see the NPC's use in the game, and don't purchase and use the powerful spells that a hero-god would wield. I exploited the Infinium glitch early on in the game yet am not storming through the land wearing Deadra armor forcing all of the lowly peasants to kneel before my awesome might; currently I'm wearing a belted tunic wielding whatever weapon I found recently because I am roleplaying that my character is in an early stage of development and is thus not ready to ascend to godhood. It also helps keep things lively as I am somewhat fragile in that gear. The game gives you plenty of options to roleplay as you want, even allowing you to farm or be a tradesman, essentially if that's your inclination.
User avatar
Crystal Clear
 
Posts: 3552
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:42 am

Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:40 pm

Why shouldn't you be the most powerful character in the game, or in the world, or in the history of the world if that's what you want to be? If I ran into someone more powerful in Skyrim, who had better adventures, and was the "hero" of the land, I would have asked Bethesda why I couldn't have been him/her instead of my piddly little tag-along.

The game isn't designed for you to be a minion or some regular Joe, and so they developed the prophesy of the Dragonborn to justify why you get all of the power and accolades. Anyway, if you want to roleplay someone who isn't very powerful, I think that option is available to you. Wear the kinds of clothes and armor that you see the NPC's use in the game, and don't purchase and use the powerful spells that a hero-god would wield. I exploited the Infinium glitch early on in the game yet am not storming through the land wearing Deadra armor forcing all of the lowly peasants to kneel before my awesome might; currently I'm wearing a belted tunic wielding whatever weapon I found recently because I am roleplaying that my character is in an early stage of development and is thus not ready to ascend to godhood. It also helps keep things lively as I am somewhat fragile in that gear. The game gives you plenty of options to roleplay as you want, even allowing you to farm or be a tradesman, essentially if that's your inclination.

It's an RPG with a world bound by lore. That's why. You may be Dragonborn, but someone else was the Champion of Cyrodiil, and someone else the Nerevarine. They were all "Heroes", if that's what you believe, and the fact that they've all existed means that there are others out there that are as strong as or stronger than you. This isn't some action-adventure game where your main object is to "beat 'em up". It's an RPG set in a world that's completely different from ours. How can you justify yourself being the strongest person when you're playing in another world, not just a stage that was created for you, and only you?

Like I said, you aren't a god. You aren't even a god-killer. You're just Dragonborn -- one of many "Heroes", and certainly not the strongest. There don't need to be other heroes in Skyrim, no, but there should certainly be characters that can match your strength. If there aren't, it's not another world - just a small sandbox for you to play around in, and I don't see the point of that at all.

Amauri, if you're free in Skyrim, kill Delphine without using the console. Or ascend to literal "godhood". Or become a lich. Yeah, you can't do any of those things because you aren't free. You're limited by both lore and realistic integrity. How would things be any different if there were another character in-game you couldn't kill?

Wyatt Waste Ranger, I'm no expert when it comes to lore, but Aedra cannot physically manifest themselves. They exist in a spiritual sense and are only able to manifest themselves through others (such as Akatosh and Martin). For Alduin to take the physical form of a dragon means he isn't an Aedra, but something else (son of Akatosh, which is stated in-game -- though I don't really see how that would make him a god moreso than any other dragon).
User avatar
Charlotte X
 
Posts: 3318
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:53 am


Return to V - Skyrim