I'm trying to figure out how to make thief build that is not so combat focused and uses illusion and pickpocketing to get by. I came up with a build that I think may work but my biggest concern is will I be able to actually complete the game, dragon fights and word wall boss fights are what scares me the most. I'm not sure if this is viable. Linked below is what I'm theory crafting as a build. Couple of notes I want to definitely have pickpocketing maxed all perks, some alchemy, speech at least to the point where I can sell stolen stuff to anyone, lock picking to treasure hunter with the perk to upgrade magical items from smiting since I wont be crafting/enchanting my own gear. Any advice would help, I was thinking Argonian since Histskin seems to fit a rather defensive running style. I will be playing on Master as well.

http://skyrimcalculator.com/#23410

Thanks Fellas :batman:

I'd recommend skipping Windwalker and Unhindered, light armor isn't all that heavy and you'll barely notice the difference. Use those perks to take power shot for archery, and ideally I'd say try to spare three more perks for critical shot. Or pass on archery and just focus on backstab, I almost feel like taking both one-handed and archery is spreading perks thin in redundant places.

Alchemy is so powerful, I think you'll be fine regardless of the details, potions can carry almost anything through combat and Illusion is strong enough handle most things already.

It's hard to make recommendations since I feel like the entire pickpocket, speech, lockpicking trees are a waste of perks. I can say though, that keymaster is a total waste of a perk, as keys are the easiest thing to steal already and you really won't need any boost there. Master illusion is also a waste IMO, a dual cast pacify is better than harmony. I'd personally pass on the fear and frenzy specific perks too, pacify is the best. But that's my preference I suppose. I've also heard poisoned perk is pretty bad.

I also wouldn't plan for 80 unless you really want to grind.

Yah 80 is really kinda like a hope than a reality but I figured why not flesh it out completely. I honesty didnt notice I took keymaster your right about that. I went with unhindered because I thought I read that sneak was based on armor weight and with no real combat skills to speak of I thought it was a good idea but I catch your drift since light armor has a low weight to begin with. My thoughts process was if I came upon a foe that was much stronger than me in combat maybe I could steal his equipped weapons and armors to give me a chance for when I did fight him that's why I went so far in the pickpocket tree. Lockpicking I also agree is 100% useless because I rather enjoy the mini game and like you said lockpicks are pleantiful. Its that damn treasure hunter perk I want to try out! I've read of people finding some pretty cool items with it.

Speech is well speech, I took it just to make $$ really since selling stolen stuff to anyone seems funny. Stealing everything off a shop keeper just to sell it back would make me smile. I've never actually used illusion at all but it seemed pretty cool messing with peoples minds. I thought frenzy would be necessary keeping people occupied. I'll re-do the build and see if I can come up with something better. Thanks for the advice Odd Hermit much appreciated. :celebration:

Alchemy, like someone said, there is a potion for virtually anything is combat, where do even begin, alchemy is you best friend.

Cheers

NP.

Frenzy is good but I feel like most of the time, a non-improved frenzy is enough since usually if there's a group of enemies one or two are low enough level anyway. And with dual cast, it'll still work on most things anyway. Pacify IMO is the best of them, especially with a sneak attacking build since you can reset combat so easily for multiple sneak attacks with it.

I think you'll be fine, a build with perks in speech, lockpicking, pickpocket will never be ideal for combat but you can still get by with them and I understand it adds more fun to playing a thief.

Do you have to complete the main quest with this build? I just run the Thief's guild and Dark Brotherhood quest lines with my illusionist thief. And clear out any fort I come across.

Ok, I've come up with something that may work a little better. I was thinking about it as I was fleshing out the build again and I realized I can use a cloth armor that you find during a quest line if you catch my non-spoiler drift as my armor. So definitely no problems with armor now. I feel like the 6 points for back stab and 1h damage modifier are just to good to pass up vs bandit camps. That kill animation is so worth it.

I kept poison perk in pickpocket just because this character is going to be so focused on alchemy. I've seen screenshots of potions of frenzy that work up to level 40 npcs. So in my mind, a fun way to play would be. Ok I know hes the bandit chief but he now has no armor and no weapon, now hes frenzy'd and attacking his buddies who are mauling him. For 1 perk point I think its worth a shot to open up a different style of game play.

I looked up harmony because I wasn't sure what it did and yea, 900 magicka to cast? No thanks. I doubt I'll have enough mana for that anyways. I was thinking of doing a 2:1:1 ratio as I leveled up health/stam/magicka.

I also removed quick hands from lockpicking since I'd have max stealth. I mean no one is going to see me hidden anyways.

I left the points in illusion for frenzy/fear because well I couldnt think of anything else to dump them into to be honest. It's 2 points, any advice? I was thinking of just leaving them tbh.

http://skyrimcalculator.com/#23453

edit back stab not back back

Well, I suppose not but I think it would be fun to attempt it. My two other characters are 2h sword (Clare from Claymore) and dual axe (Olaf from LoL)

I thought this would be a good change of pace and make things interesting.

My initial thoughts:

• Which difficulty will you play on?
  
• Where will you get your gear, and what enchants will you aim for?
  
• Do you like picking flowers/starting at the ground whenever you travel?

If you've answered all these to your satisfaction then you're set. Your build looks strong, but do plan on how it will look every 10 levels. Focus on raising combat skills (archery, 1H, illusion) in a 2:1 ration with non-combat (pick pocket, speech) so that you can deal with the enemies scaling to your level.

I have found that putting levels exclusively into Health early on helps until you get a few key perks (i.e. Quiet Casting, Backstab/Deadly Aim). From there you can feel it out. You can use potions/jewelry to boost your stamina and magicka at first as well.

I like the look of your lock picking perks, but do reconsider Quick Hands. Sometimes you want to open a chest/door right in front of a guard and that's not going to happen no matter what your sneak is. Also, consider your defense: really good offense, armor, mage armor, wards. Illusion is great for turning foes, but there are other considerations like dragons, traps, failed/immune NPC's, etc. In other words, how do you plan to take a hit?

Good luck. Looks fun.

Better aim at lvl50, easier to achieve

I will take off:
* Purity
* Snakeblood
* Wind Walker
* Unhindered
* Master Trader
* Fence
* Investor
* Merchant
* Allure
* Illusion Dual Casting
* Tresure Hunter
* Golden Touch
* Adept Lock
* Apprentice Locks
* Novice Locks
* Overdraw x 5

with this much take off, you still need level 60

Note:
* If you complete Thieve guild special quest, u can have a 4k fence, that's more than enough for anything so left tree of speech is useless
* Also in this game it is too easy to earn gold, feeling lock picking trees are useless too
* When your stealth and illusion is high enough, you don't really need archery. you probably only use it in early game and use one-hand dagger the rest of the game.


Your build pretty much depends on stealth and illusion for combat. you may have a bit struggle early game, but mid-end game is still godlike. especially when you got shadow warrior combine with whirlwind shout. Your main focus early game is to get invisible spell, combine with backstab you don't need to worry too much.

Thanks for all the replies fellas, I think I've nailed down a more concrete idea of a build that I'm confident in. I cant wait to start playing time to start a new character in Skyrim!

Not really a character tip, But I'd reccomend getting Throw Voice as fast as possible if you want to play a thief. I've found it pretty useful when stealing do far =P