This is my first post! Can't say I've ever felt the need to join these forums since I started back on Morrowind but I've given myself a break from Skyrim to vent a few points. I will again point out this may contain spoilers and such so please, don't delve too deep. I've said it, there you go!


So first things first the DB armour - Am I the only person who doesn't like it? For me it doesn't look like an assassins clothing. I don't like tight leather anyway but the headgear looks strange to me and in general I was expecting 'visually' more daggers and blades on a black armour with light armour pieces. I dunno how to explain in writing but it just looked very plain and way too tight. The loose hood looked good but it didn't fit with the rest of the armour. I was quite irritated during the quests wearing the armour. As a side note, I was also hoping for a long knife or a stiletto type dagger to go with the armour, I ended up using elven daggers but still.
Rating: 3/10 - The look to me is not what I would have pictured, I preferred the darker Oblivion armour.

The Quests layout *Spoilers* : This is a minor annoyance because the way a lot of the missions actually played out were really good but it bothered me that it followed the exact same layout as the previous title. 'Get some recognition, get better, most people in sanctuary get killed, get the person who did it, rebuild.' I guess it was inevitable your character would become the listener but again, it followed the guidelines of the previous game. Just a thought but I think it would have been better if Astrid (or perhaps the Jester) decided they were going to leave and build a separate brotherhood in the Dawnstar sanctuary to rival the other sanctuary - leading to a purge. Other than that I thoroughly enjoyed the quests leading up to the finale, but I would have much prefer a bigger confrontation with Commander Maro rather than a one on one.
Rating: 8/10 due to the guidelines followed whilst the finale was very well designed.

The Sanctuaries: This one annoys me. I quite liked the first sanctuary, it was lit up everywhere, it had a decent layout, it looked like a good headquarters for the dark brotherhood and then you get moved to the Dawnstar sanctuary and that's where you have to remain... and I can't stand the place. Firstly, there is little to no lighting. I liked the red hue of the other sanctuary, the DS looks beaten up, old, and not a place to lead a group of assassins. The layout is poor, the whole torture thing is random (seriously, they're contract assassins, not torturers) and I would have much preferred Astrid quarters to my own oversized bedroom. The training area is dead and lifeless, the whole place is dead boring and the Night Mother was much better up in her own little room. I personally feel the sanctuaries, even though I liked the first one more could have had a little to a lot more work done to them.
Rating: 1st Sanctuary - 8/10 - Could have done with a bit of a better layout and the Jesters quarters looked nothing like the rest of the Sanctuary, but it was decent.
2nd Sanctuary - 4/10 - I can't stand the layout, the lighting is only in a few areas, the size feels bigger than the other sanctuary, but again, it doesn't look use-able. The torture chamber is pointless, there is no planning area and my room feels too big. I would have much preferred to rebuild the 1st Sanctuary.

I would go into the characters but most of them felt pretty fitting. Astrid was probably my favourite. Babette was literally just filling the void of the previous vampire (again, following previous guidelines) and the others were pretty decent. I liked the Argonian and the Dark elf. The Nord being a werewolf was pretty cool but I found the mage could have been less old and more crazy/dark/powerful whilst the Redguard should have been more twisted. The Jester to me was actually a decent character, lost his mind trying to become the Listener, I just wish he'd been more involved in the killing side, perhaps leading to a crime scene mission in a cave or something where he lured victims, I don't know but it's there. The spider again just filled the place of the previous dark brotherhood animal.
Rating: 7/10 - Some characters could have been better made and I hated the fact that most of them were again killed, in my mind that is like killing the best people then giving control to someone with no idea what they are doing. Should have kept Astrid and The Dark Elf at least.

Well that's it, that's my opinion on the Dark Brotherhood, feel free to give your own opinions or counter argue my own. I hope some other people agree though!

Yeah I agree with a lot of this. I had a lot of fun playing it, but when I started reflecting on Skyrim's DB after I had played it, I liked it less. I really disliked how structurally similar it was to Oblivion's, as you said. They even had character fill-ins. My favourite bits were the bits different from Oblivion, like becoming the Listener very early on in the questline and the Guild trying to deal with that.

Something surprising to me was that, for all their copying of Oblivion's DB, they didn't copy the most popular quest, the house party one. I'm pretty sure that's most people's favourite bit of Oblivion DB, but there wasn't anything like it in Skyrim. One thing I actually wanted them to do again, haha.

So yeah, while it was enjoyable, I was a bit dissapointed with Skyrim DB. I never had my jaw drop, never really connected with the characters (too underdeveloped, too derivative), but I did enjoy a lot of the assassinations. I liked how murdering the Emperor was actually less "fun" than it should have been, he knew it would happen and had made his peace with it. Assassination is fun when you are unseen and unknown, and/or when you cast fear into the victim. The Emperor took it with dignity, which I liked because it was different.

The armor was tolerable, for me. The robes, however... bleh.

I didn't notice this when I played the game for the first time, but a lot of people complain that your main targets are very unappealing. Then I noticed it. Sure, Astrid picks up someone doing the Black Sacrament on me or an emaciated beggar, but she doesn't get one on politicians or an orphanage mistress?

Again, I think the second sanctuary is tolerable. Well, maybe if there were more than four (eight if you count those being tortured, whom I killed) people living in the place, two of which are generic initiates. I would have loved having to rebuild both, having the girl the leader of one and the redguard the leader of the other one. (And why can't I use my icy tunnel anymore? I liked my creepy, Udy. tunnel.)

Before joining the Dark Brotherhood, you may find Cicero's caravan (with the Night Mother) wrecked on the road north of Whiterun. He asks for your help, to get this farmer to help, and when he gets help, the farmer ends up dead later... :huh:
But I'm with you. I wished Babette could have been more... vampiric. Anbjorn's jokes about eating me were nice, but got old pretty fast. The argonian and dark elf were all right, but I never really paid attention to them. Same with the old mage, who annoyed me.

i think that DB quest line is strongest in game
in fact they are so good that i can't enjoy other quest lines same as before DB
and there armor is ok but jester/cicero's clothes are just fantastic. So darkbrotherhoody

I am new to TES so I have no comparison to prior titles, but I do agree with you a most of your points. The Dawnstar Santuary is horrid. So much so that after the questline I rarely trek back there maybe for one radiant quest so far and thats all. The Torture chamber again very lackluster. There could have been a better way to gain income for the DB.

The armor, while I dont mind the fit, I was disappointed by the color choices. An assassin guild to me has always been black..thats your color...basic and dark. Not sure why this was done but the Worn Shrouded gear that I had intended to make better enchants on was a huge disspointment last night. I spent a good hour coming up with and enchanting the peices only to get to the workbench and find they were unable to be improved.

Although Cicero is quit annoying at times he is by far the most unique character of the questline and thusly I have kept him around.

Overall I did enjoy the questline as a whole though and would like to see more quests added to it in future DLCs.