Let me start off by saying I absolutely love Fallout 3, Oblivion, and New Vegas. These are the three titles I am speaking of mainly.Fallout 3 could be one of my favorite games of all time, period. But! These games could have been SO much better. Whoever tested these games did a horrible job, and not for ONE second do I believe Bethesda did not realize how much their game could freeze prior to releasing them. Time, and time again I see people posting all over the internet "Help! My game freezes, what should I do?". The answer is simple, there is nothing you can do. There is nothing wrong with your game, there is nothing wrong with your system (be it PS3, Xbox 360, or PC), there is nothing wrong with your hard disk drive, there is nothing wrong with your cache. There IS something wrong with their engine, or features. Simple as that. It has occurred over several of their titles to this point, and they have never once truly fixed the problem. Funny if you go to their support page under FAQ for their games...you never see freezing as an issue anywhere. Not even if you search for it. You know they know because it's the number one reported issue. You can go to any search engine of your choice and type in "my (pick a Bethesda title) is freezing on (pick a system)" and you will see a long list of the same questions being asked about it over, and over again.

It seems common this day and age for us the gamers to basically pay for a beta version of a "release" title. Company's rush their products to the line knowing full well there are things wrong with them. With an issue this large across the board it's almost embarrassing they don't address their loyal community and at least give us a heads up to say "hey we know what the problem is, and we are working diligently to fix it for you guys" or, "hey we don't know what the true problem is, and we are sorry we released the game to you in an un-stable manner". Wishful thinking I know. It has been years since' Oblivion, and Fallout 3 hit shelves. Yet here we are with Fallout New Vegas at the helm of things with the exact same problems as it's predecessors. Same old song and dance, again. I have every trophy for Fallout New Vegas via PS3, and my game froze even after patches again, again, and again. At times I would quit playing due to a freeze, getting in to the game and losing a decent bit of progress. You just hit the power and say screw it. I would say on my trip questing for the platinum trophy New Vegas froze 70-100 times in all the hours I put into it. Fallout 3 was no different for my PC when I got the Achievements via Windows Live to my Gamertag.

It's true the gameplay of these amazing games counts for something, when it works. There were times I sailed on for hours without much of an issue. Then there were times by an hour into the game I wanted to break the disc.

The point, or points of this post is this I guess.....release betas for your games be it private, or public so that we can help you address the problems before it hurts you and us. Talk to your community and stop leaving us hanging. I know in terms of viewing these posts your company is the one with the power so to speak. You can shut down posts you don't like, and ignore people at will. But, don't forget WE PAY YOU. Your company would be nothing without the consumer. I think it's time to step up to the plate on your buggy a** games, and give the community what they deserve.

With all do respect (I really do love your work).
-Kazru-

I very much doubt you'll get many votes in the "NO" column here.

That's the point. I want a representation of what kind of % of people that buy their games experience these issues. When you search places about issues with their games people ask questions often like as if they are the only ones with a problem. Yet most likely everyone who plays one of their big 3 has experienced an array of issues. It needs to stop. I want quality, and I am sure everyone else would at least agree with that. Don't release it till it's right.

I wonder how long before someone comes on here and says 'all games are buggy,get over it'?

Thats not my opinion by the way, i think this lot of thieving chancers should be dragged over hot coals for releasing buggy crap like NV.
Its just that some people can't see that. They claim its either the cache, the HD, the XBox overheating, or you've played the game the wrong way, or there's an R in the month, when everybody with an ounce of intellegence knows its the buggy disk in the drive.

@ Jonesy201

Exactly sir.

Though if someone comes in and says all games are buggy, they are right. Some more than others for sure. But anyone who has played these games extensively knows it's not normal we are dealing with here.

All cars have mechanical issues sooner or later too. But this is like buying a car and they forgot to bolt the engine in, then your wheels fall off before you get off the lot.

All games are buggy, get over it.

@Kiln

Failed. Nice edit on the spelling job.

The real fail is asking people on a gamesas forum if they've ever had any problems with the games. Its a no brainer, the engine is not perfect and there are frequent problems. This is known widely and a thread pointing it out is basically useless. Its like saying, hey have any of you ever been mad that gas prices were high? Vote here.

P.S. I'd edited before you posted but just barely. I win. Mwahahahaha.

You know the games are like this and you're still buying them so they must be doing something right. You obviously don't care too much.

Ps this thread will probably be locked soon. Threads like this almost always do.

I'm not sure which games you play, but no. Games I play are NOT like this. Apparently you aren't a gamer at all. I've been playing games probably longer than you have even been alive. I have nearly every major system made. Funny thing is they all still work, yet Xbox 360's had nearly a 40% chance to break down. It's a re-occurring theme this generation. Consumers are being had.

Posting an advertisment thread linking to this one in just about every other H&S forum on this site (Which is against the rules) won't have helped his cause much either.

Welcome to the future granddad.

Wait. Is the the quality of the game you're railing against or the quality of consoles?

And where did you get the 40% statistic from?

I don't much care. They would have locked this thread regardless because it's ill towards them. Forbid anyone should ever post something constructive and try to get something done. Then have childish antics like Kilns in here. Most likely you are just a troll, you travel from thread to thread looking to shoot at something to aggravate the OP. Most likely you don't even buy your own games so it would explain why you care very little about money, you don't earn it yourself.

@ DevenTarn

Take your pick.

http://www.destructoid.com/new-survey-puts-xbox-360-failure-rate-at-42--171088.phtml

http://consumerist.com/2009/08/xbox-360-failure-rate-is-542-percent-game-informer-finds.html

http://www.lazygamer.net/new-survey-says-xbox-360-failure-rate-is-42/

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/101/1014486p1.html

More? It varies between 30-55% of surveyed people. The one survey of 42% was of 500,000 units. Acceptable?

I'm not locking this one, but I did delete your other topics linking to this one. If you want this moved to a different forum, send a report, but one topic is enough.

Erm I'm 21 and I do buy my own games. I buy everything for myself thanks, alot of expensive things. I was just pointing out that this thread is not going to make a difference in the grand scheme of things since the company isn't going to care and besides that they've built a new engine for TES that will likely be adapted to all their games in the future, they are working on improvements to the out dated engine.

Where would you suggest the best place to reach out to people? Thank you for not locking the thread though. I apologize for making several threads linking it, just trying to get people in here to discuss it.

@ Kiln

You are right, in the grand scheme most of the time nobody does care. But, by that logic in the grand scheme of things do you think you honestly are going to change my mind about caring? You must care enough to hover here and continue to give me reasons why it does not matter. So you do care about something, I just disagree with you caring so little about the RIGHT thing. That's us, the people who buy games. Bravo for them making a new engine, but perhaps I want to purchase Fallout 3 GotY edition for my Xbox 360 but won't because I know they will never fix the problems they left us with now. Point being there should have never been that many problems, in the first place.

I'm not really hovering over this thread alone, I bounce around everywhere depending on where the activity is. I open around six tabs at once and browse multiple forums.

I won't argue with you further because there is honestly no point. As you said I'm not going to make you see that your thread will not change anything any more than you can convince me that this thread is going to suddenly make gamesas give a crap any more than the last five thousand duplicate threads that are exactly the same thing since Oblivion's buggy gameplay and every subsequent gamesas title since then. Good luck with the revolution.

@Kiln

Now if only those 5,000 people from duplicate threads compiled their voice into one place, it might be something to build on. I'm not the only person who cares about consumers getting the shaft. Then if 100,000 people like you who say caring does no good started caring, maybe it would send a crack in the foundation. A majority of people think exactly like you. "Why should they care about what I have to say?". Who wouldn't want change that benefits them? I don't put the blame on Bethesda. This is a much larger issue at hand. It has become more common for game companies to get pressured into faster production, while the production becomes increasingly more sensitive as technology advances. So in the short term consumers get more games, at a lesser quality. Companies like Blizzard have had the right attitude half of my life. The game is ready, when it's ready. Blizzard has more fans than any one company can ever dream of having. It could have something to do with their quality.

I have had freezes for all bethesda games that use the gamebyo on all systems i've owned.

Thats Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and new vegas. It's only that the games are so good that I can put up with the freezes.

Menwhile, At Bethesda studios, Not a single [censored] was given that day.

...

Since Morrowind I have always had crashes and problems with gamesas games. Morrowind was extreamly buggy on XBOX it crashed randomly and periodcaly with no means to patch it. Oblivion ran fine for me on PC even with my crappy System. Havn't tried it on 360 so no statement there. Fallout 3 which mostly uses the Oblivion engine seems to be runnig a little bit better on consoles than on PC. But its still buggy as hell on both Systems. Haven't tried New Vegas yet but given my FO3 experience I'll probably buy it in 5 years if ever when you can get for 5 bucks.



How can you say he's no gamer at all. Just because you have started playing with Atari and Master System, dosen't meen he is less a gamer.
Besides you can't really expect to compare cartridge consoles with disc consoles. Look at the Game Boy series. Cartridges/Flash cards all the way down to the latest models. Minimal size fast loading times. You can chuck them around loose them in a box in the Attic and after 10 Years they are still playable. Can't say the same thing about a CD/DVD. One descent scratch and they are done for.
Other than that can you seriously compare a PS3 or 360 GPU to that of a NES? I believeit's harder to maintain something that displays 17 Million colors than something that displays 48. Its like comparing a Racing Car to an Ox cart. Just about anyone can maintain an Ox cart. But not everyone can maintain a racing car.



In principle your right. A lot of games get rushed out nowerdays to meet the consumer demand. The reason why Blizzard can allow its self to develop Diablo 3 for over 10 Years is that they have a constant cashflow coming in due to WoW and WC3 or Diablo 2 before that.
EA on the other hand chucks out one game after the other. They don't have to worry about playabilty so much since the amount of games they distribute is vast. If a NFS title comes out every year you don't have to uphold the support for the old one so long, since its more likely the new title will be bought.
So it would seem logical that smaller companies would have to kinda rush out their games in order to still finance their programmers and meet the consumer demand, while keeping up with the competition.
However, when you look at Ubisoft fo instence. Take their Assassins Creed games. Those run really good on consoles and on PC. Why is that? I believe one reason could be that they bring the game out for consoles first and then half a year later they release the port to PC. The same goes for Biowares Mass Effect. The PC port always came out half a year later.

Maybe smaller companies should try to adapt this feature. Focus on one System at a time. Console or PC and then bring out the System port half a year later. Seems to work for other companies to hold bugs at a bare minimum.