Point well made. Magick is something that I roleplay is beyond my character (never having the want nor power to use it). But that's probably why guilds would be so popular - food, a warm bed, and training.

It would be a rather neat thing to see a dentist open up shop in the Elven Gardens, though. Even if it's just for atmosphere.

That is an awesome idea! Actually, i think i could make something similar to hospitals or nursing homes in old days. Poor hygiene, ancient healing methods, severely ill and injured people ... Elven Gardens are probably too peaceful for that, so i might consider some other district. But thanks for the suggestion, i get very few of those lately.

@RedBag: My point was that medieval cities weren't filthy and unhealthy because people didn't care - they did - but because there were just so damn many people in such a small confined place. Any mod which attempts more realism by making the cities dirtier needs to make the streets (generally) narrower and the towns way fuller, else you just trade one unrealistic aspect for another.

For example: Cities in the Middle Ages had about 39000 people per square mile, or 15000 per km?, on average. Imperial City in the game (including the Waterfront, Prison and the Mages Guild) is about 86000 m? (about 100000 square yards or one-thirtieth of a square mile) in size. That means a population of about 1200-1300 NPCs in there, almost four times what is currently there (including guards; excluding them, five to six times as many named NPCs) to meet the average (not terribly overpopulated) medieval city standard.

Well, given that it's probably next to impossible to create that many NPCs and not have a slag pile of a computer after rendering it, I'd say overpopulation is out of the question.

But we could give the illusion, right? A few more boarding house type buildings here and there with random buttheads disappearing and appearing now and again, and that could make it seem a little more...full.

Is it possible to give an AI package to a random person?

Maybe you want something outside the cities? Try unique landscapes if you haven't already the swamps on the south are really dirty
I really like what they did with BC i love it but i can't play with it... don't ask why!
A Pell's gate mod? I took a look at those pics.. will some bandits reside there?
I smell some smugglers..from FCOM!

This thread reminds me of a project I had in mind when the Cyrodiil 2x thread was still around. The idea was a testbed city (more specifically Chorrol), done at 2x its original scale, remade according to the original concept art complete with a wealthy town center, the slums just beyond the city walls (protected by a palisade wall) and some outskirts with perhaps a few farms. As much as I wouldn't mind seeing one of the existing cities "fixed up", starting from fresh does have its charms.

I like where the discussion has been going, so why not keep it going?


Something else I have noticed, is that there is a severe lack of rentable houses, too. I mean, you can rent a tavern room, but only for a night and I think taking the food and stuff in the room is theft. (though I do it anyways) Even if there were more rentable house mods, there would probably still be almost no rentable poor housing mods.

That's something I consider an oversight from the original game. If you can rent rooms, why can't you rent houses? Maybe I need to stay more than one night, but less than forever, so buying a house isn't a good idea...

As an alternative to Blood&Mud or Better Cities Bravil (which punches my fps a bit too much and makes some changes I'm not keen on) I've come up with this. These great mods http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24012, http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13664, and http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=20771 used together create, not necessarily a scumy, but definately a much poorer, run down vision of Bravil. I just need to find a sad old dock/port to complete the town. Just thought I'd add in another option for Bravil for anyone reading the thread.

Note: I merged Finishing Touches and Internal Docks together and edited both it and The Lost Spires esp for compatibility (load order won't solve lanscape conflicts)




zedas

I don't think it is completely out of question. I have been trying to create exactly that for some time now, with other mods and with making my own. For example, there is already http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=3782, which doubles the population of IC. http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11351 also brings a few new NPCs. If you can afford it (yes, some people can), you can also download my IC overhaul, which will in final version also double the population. You will then be able to have a busy city with more content and details, and also with 3 times more people (and a healthier civilian/guard ratio too ). If you can't run the game with such tasking mods, you can always choose something lighter instead, such as Better Cities or ImpeREAL City, and with "only" doubled population - which is still quite enough for a not-so-demanding mainstream.

Edit: Almost forgot http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?id=3293&view=OblivionMods.Detail http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14344. I always recommend that, a huge contribution to cities' atmosphere.

I use the Ambient Town Sounds, and I'm rather fond of it. I'm looking into Extended Imperial City. More people with more pockets, eh?

After adding the Better Cities FPS patches, I've gotten an insane 5-10 more frames in Bravil than I had before. So the lag there doesn't really bother me anymore (I say five to ten fps more, now I get 15-20 fps xD). I really like how Bravil was set up, now. The only thing I wish is that there would be more junk shops/filler shops on the docks and in the river. There should be junk shops everywhere, in my opinion. Pawn shops, too. (As in, "legitimate" fences)

I was piddling through my mod archives and found "Chorrolized Cheydinhal textures". Popped it open, and tinted everything black, and :WOW: does Cheydinhal look fine, now. I'm thinking about going back and layering scummy textures onto some of the textures and seeing how that works out. If I get a really nasty looking thing going on, I might release it out there and maybe work on some for the IC.

Thief!You are not gonna get away with this!

I was right, as far as I can tell. There are no houses for rent mods, as far as I can tell. I remembered Princess_Stomper's Homes to Let, and it was a let down when I found it was for Morrowind. (The houses looked so good!)

I want to be wrong on this one, so please, everyone put there best "haha" attitude on and prove me wrong. xD

Even the sewers seem to clean. There is no "sludge" in the channel ways, they seem awfully wide (more like beggar houses than poo-ways) and for the most part neglect of garbage and clutter. That's awfully disappointing, considering the scary things I find under my bathroom sink, after I forget to clean it for a month or three.