[RELzBETAWIPz] FNVEdit : Fallout: New Vegas

» Wed May 02, 2012 9:37 pm

I had problems when masterupdating the http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=40007 as the script adding the weapons to the vendor/loot list was not running.
There is or was a problem with Nevada Skies where entering the Prospector Saloon would crash with a masterupdated esp.

» Thu May 03, 2012 6:43 am

one of the forum members posted that they had cleaned and/or masterupdated some mods and it made them worse. he didnt say which ones andi cant remember the thread but obviously its probably somewhere in this form.

Can you supply a reference for the post? I don't recall ever reading that cleaning a mod through FNVEdit (by which I infer to mean using the filters to remove duplicate to master entries and changing deleted references to disabled) ever broke a mod. But you should stop using masterupdate. I don't know of any reason to use masterupdate in FNV except to address head/body discolouration of mod added NPCs, unless someone else knows of other reasons.

» Thu May 03, 2012 7:47 am

Is there any for of records from plugins I should avoid cleaning? Is the prevailing wisdom like previous games?

I'm looking at the plugin http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=42978And see this when I run the cleaning through FNVEdit:
[Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 15433 Removed Records: 70 Elapsed Time: 00:00
[Undeleting and Disabling References done] Processed Records: 15363 Undeleted Records: 13 Elapsed Time: 00:01

Spoiler

Removing: [NAVM:0015C142] (for SLCoyoteDen [CELL:000E193D] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -8,-19))
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SLCoyoteDen [CELL:000E193D] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -8,-19)
Removing: SLCoyoteDen [CELL:000E193D] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -8,-19)
Removing: [NAVM:001629AE] (for [CELL:000E1935] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -8,-18))
Removing: [NAVM:00163A16] (for [CELL:000E1934] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -7,-18))
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000E1934] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -7,-18)
Removing: [NAVM:001069BF] (for [CELL:000E192D] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -8,-17))
Removing: [NAVM:0016B5DB] (for [CELL:000E192D] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -8,-17))
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000E192D] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -8,-17)
Removing: [CELL:000E192D] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -8,-17)
Removing: [CELL:000E19E1] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -12,-8)
Removing: [CELL:000E19DA] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -13,-7)
Removing: [CELL:000E19D1] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -12,-6)
Removing: [NAVM:0016B2F7] (for [CELL:000E1A4D] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -16,-21))
Removing: [NAVM:0016B2F9] (for [CELL:000E1A4D] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -16,-21))
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000E1A4D] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -16,-21)
Removing: [NAVM:0016B2E4] (for [CELL:000E1A44] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -15,-20))
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000E1A44] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -15,-20)
Removing: [NAVM:00171D66] (for [CELL:000E1A3D] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -16,-19))
Removing: [NAVM:0016B2DD] (for IvanpahDryLake [CELL:000E1A3C] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -15,-19))
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of IvanpahDryLake [CELL:000E1A3C] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -15,-19)
Removing: IvanpahDryLake [CELL:000E1A3C] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -15,-19)
Removing: [NAVM:00168A55] (for SLNHPStation [CELL:000E1A35] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -16,-18))
Removing: [NAVM:00171D65] (for SLNHPStation [CELL:000E1A35] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -16,-18))
Removing: [NAVM:00177B92] (for SLNHPStation [CELL:000E1A35] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -16,-18))
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SLNHPStation [CELL:000E1A35] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -16,-18)
Removing: [NAVM:0016201D] (for [CELL:000E1A2E] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -9,-18))
Removing: [NAVM:001629AB] (for [CELL:000E1A2E] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -9,-18))
Removing: [NAVM:0016B5D5] (for [CELL:000E1A2E] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -9,-18))
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000E1A2E] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -9,-18)
Removing: [CELL:000E1A2E] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -9,-18)
Removing: [NAVM:0016B060] (for [CELL:000E1AB8] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -19,-3))
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000E1AB8] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -19,-3)
Removing: [NAVM:0016B05D] (for [CELL:000E1AB1] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -20,-2))
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000E1AB1] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -20,-2)
Removing: [CELL:000E1AB1] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -20,-2)
Removing: [NAVM:0010AED6] (for [CELL:000E1AAF] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -18,-2))
Removing: [NAVM:0010AED7] (for [CELL:000E1AAF] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -18,-2))
Removing: [NAVM:0010AED8] (for [CELL:000E1AAF] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -18,-2))
Removing: [NAVM:00177F6B] (for [CELL:000E1AA8] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -19,-1))
Removing: [NAVM:00177F6A] (for [CELL:000E1AA7] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -18,-1))
Removing: [NAVM:00177F6E] (for [CELL:000E1AA7] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -18,-1))
Removing: [NAVM:0017B651] (for [CELL:000E1AA7] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -18,-1))
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000E1AA7] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -18,-1)
Removing: [NAVM:00169351] (for [CELL:000E1B3E] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -17,-20))
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000E1B3E] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -17,-20)
Removing: [NAVM:00169350] (for [CELL:000E1B36] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -17,-19))
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000E1B36] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -17,-19)
Removing: [CELL:000E1B36] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -17,-19)
Removing: [NAVM:00177F7B] (for [CELL:000DAEBD] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -19,0))
Removing: [NAVM:00177F7D] (for [CELL:000DAEBD] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -19,0))
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000DAEBD] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -19,0)
Removing: [NAVM:00164C43] (for [CELL:000DE907] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at 24,-27))
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000DE907] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at 24,-27)
Removing: [NAVM:00164C27] (for [CELL:000DEA08] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at 23,-28))
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000DEA08] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at 23,-28)
Removing: [NAVM:000EAC25] (for [CELL:00084313] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at 8,-12))
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00084313] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at 8,-12)
Removing: [NAVM:000EAC0B] (for [CELL:00084354] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at 6,-12))
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00084354] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at 6,-12)
Removing: [NAVM:000EAC09] (for [CELL:00084326] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at 7,-11))
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00084326] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at 7,-11)
Removing: [NAVM:000EAC05] (for ClarkField [CELL:00084314] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at 7,-12))
Removing: [NAVM:000EAC04] (for ClarkField [CELL:00084314] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at 7,-12))
Removing: [NAVM:000EAC02] (for [CELL:00084311] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at 7,-13))
Removing: [REFR:0010A16F] (places NVGoodSpringsHomeExtDoor "Door" [DOOR:0010A424] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of [CELL:000846EA] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at 0,0))
Removing: [REFR:00108F40] (places NVGoodSpringsHomeExtDoor "Door" [DOOR:0010A424] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of [CELL:000846EA] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at 0,0))
Removing: [REFR:0015F0C7] (places RamshackleScrapDoor01 "Door" [DOOR:00014E19] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of SLHellsMotel "Hell's Motel" [CELL:0015F048])
Removing: [REFR:0015334F] (places CaveRoomCorner02 [STAT:00036515] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SLCavern01INT "Morning Star Cavern" [CELL:001532F7])
Removing: [REFR:00151F81] (places NVCraftsmanHomeDoor "Door" [DOOR:000FB730] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of SLniptonRoadMarketINT "Nipton Road General Store" [CELL:00151F80])
[Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 15433 Removed Records: 70 Elapsed Time: 00:00
Undeleting: [REFR:000E4F9B] (places RubblePile04B [STAT:000660D3] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000E19D9] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -12,-7))
Undeleting: [REFR:000E4F8C] (places ShoppingCartCage [STAT:00096BC0] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000E19D9] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -12,-7))
Undeleting: [REFR:000E535E] (places BarrelToxicWaste01 [STAT:00047B31] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000E19D9] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -12,-7))
Undeleting: [REFR:001536D1] (places [MSTT:0013ACB4] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000E1A27] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -10,-17))
Undeleting: [REFR:00174399] (places [MSTT:0013ACB4] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000DA9B2] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -11,34))
Undeleting: [REFR:001406E2] (places [MSTT:0013ACB4] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000DAE45] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -22,16))
Undeleting: [REFR:00167FEE] (places [MSTT:0013ACB4] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000DAE3C] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -21,17))
Undeleting: [REFR:0014ED56] (places [MSTT:0013ACB4] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000DAE3C] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -21,17))
Undeleting: [REFR:001400B2] (places [MSTT:0013ACB4] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000DAE3A] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -19,17))
Undeleting: [REFR:001400C7] (places [MSTT:0013ACB4] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000DAE3A] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at -19,17))
Undeleting: [REFR:0016314B] (places [MSTT:0013ACB4] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000DDF21] (in WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726] at 2,7))
Undeleting: [REFR:00151F98] (places OffDoorSmL01Static [STAT:0002B570] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SLniptonRoadMarketINT "Nipton Road General Store" [CELL:00151F80])
Undeleting: [REFR:00173570] (places WoodPlanksGroup02 [STAT:0007B218] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SLniptonRoadMarketINT "Nipton Road General Store" [CELL:00151F80])
[Undeleting and Disabling References done] Processed Records: 15363 Undeleted Records: 13 Elapsed Time: 00:01

So a lot of NAVM and GRUP temp children records.

Thoughts?

» Wed May 02, 2012 10:14 pm

I doubt the empty GRUP child records will be an issue to remove. They're just space wasters actually. They don't normally cause harm, but why have them?

I can't say for sure if the NAVM records (navmeshes) are going to be an issue or not. One would figure not, but someone more knowledgable about the gory details of navmeshes would need to speak up.

» Wed May 02, 2012 10:31 pm

OK thanks. I don't recall ever having issues with that in F3.

What about cleaning the DLC ... I think maybe http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1203121-official-dlc-cleaning-question/page__view__findpost__p__19895327. No real answer - but that thread was whack anyway.

Here is what I got...
Dead Money:
[Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 40888 Removed Records: 407 Elapsed Time: 00:00
[Undeleting and Disabling References done] Processed Records: 40481 Undeleted Records: 51 Elapsed Time: 00:02
Honest Hearts:
[Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 40542 Removed Records: 123 Elapsed Time: 00:00
[Undeleting and Disabling References done] Processed Records: 40419 Undeleted Records: 10 Elapsed Time: 00:01
Old World Blues:
[Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 57164 Removed Records: 124 Elapsed Time: 00:00
[Undeleting and Disabling References done] Processed Records: 57040 Undeleted Records: 0 Elapsed Time: 00:02
Lonesome Road:
[Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 40090 Removed Records: 244 Elapsed Time: 00:00
[Undeleting and Disabling References done] Processed Records: 39846 Undeleted Records: 6 Elapsed Time: 00:01
Gun Runners Arsenal:
[Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 817 Removed Records: 97 Elapsed Time: 00:00
[Undeleting and Disabling References done] Processed Records: 720 Undeleted Records: 0 Elapsed Time: 00:00

The classic pack, Mercenary Pack, Tribal Pack, and Caravan Pack all seem to be unable to be cleaned due to mostly injecting records into the NV.esm.

Somewhere I read that the DLC cannot be edited. Is this just bad phrasing (in that it is not a good idea to ever do it) or was it to do with STEAM cache being invalidated ... or is it just wrong (because I oblviously just cleaned them).

And what are .NAM files?

» Wed May 02, 2012 3:31 pm

No idea. I don't have New Vegas and don't ever intend to get it. So I'm not the one to comment on what the problem with editing its DLCs is. Nor do I know what a .NAM file is.

If the navmesh issue is anything like FO3, running the files through MasterUpdate should do the trick.

» Wed May 02, 2012 4:46 pm

I already forgot what the navmesh issue is with F3.

I never used MasterUpdate with F3 and as long as I avoided buggy mods was able to have a very stable game. I tried MasterUpdate a few times but it never made a difference in stability and what did the trick was not using certain mods.

I did clean mods in F3 though.

» Wed May 02, 2012 4:25 pm

The game checks for a matching .NAM file for a given .ESM file, and if the .NAM file exists, loads the .ESM regardless of if it's in your plugins.txt file. Basically, they're there to make sure DLC .ESM's load without the user having to go into the DATA FILES part of the launcher and enabling the DLC files.

Queue

» Wed May 02, 2012 6:58 pm

Mods that add new navmeshes should set the esm bit to avoid AI bugs and crashes.
Using masterupdate is problematical with FNV because the vanilla Geck allows scripts to be saved even though references in the script are not flagged as persistent in the editor. Surprisingly, the scripts work in-game. Then when you flip the esm bit, the scripts stop working. A lot of people made these types of mods before the Geck power-up error checking came out, that prevents saving scripts improperly.
Also, when you run masterupdate, the ONAM records show as 'unresolved' in a lot of plugins.

» Wed May 02, 2012 9:28 pm

OK so in short - don't use masterupdate?

I'm cool with that ... as I wrote above it never helped me with F3.

But can one clean nav meshes from an esp if NVEdit sees them as identical to the master esm record?

thanks

» Thu May 03, 2012 7:50 am

Yes, an ITM NAVM record can be removed. If a mod adds a navmesh and finalizes it properly, it will also generate a NAVI record, which is a map between all the NAVM records that the mod adds. It's also possible that an ITM NAVM record will be saved to the plugin. Removing it doesn't hurt the NAVI record because it still references the NAVM record from the master plugin.

» Thu May 03, 2012 3:38 am

I can't seem to get the filtering to apply (v3.0.21); my load list appears correctly, I apply a filter and it counts to itself for a few seconds and announces that it's done, but nothing shows in the left panel. Any ideas?

- edit - never mind...I wasn't applying the needed filter elements. And I learned that if the game build has no real conflicts, the basic filtering won't show anything after the filtering process finishes...right?

» Wed May 02, 2012 9:18 pm

The game checks for a matching .NAM file for a given .ESM file, and if the .NAM file exists, loads the .ESM regardless of if it's in your plugins.txt file. Basically, they're there to make sure DLC .ESM's load without the user having to go into the DATA FILES part of the launcher and enabling the DLC files.

So are these .NAM files something new that came along with F:NV? They don't exist in FO3. I haven't checked the Skyrim files to see if they exist there.

Mods that add new navmeshes should set the esm bit to avoid AI bugs and crashes.
Using masterupdate is problematical with FNV because the vanilla Geck allows scripts to be saved even though references in the script are not flagged as persistent in the editor. Surprisingly, the scripts work in-game. Then when you flip the esm bit, the scripts stop working. A lot of people made these types of mods before the Geck power-up error checking came out, that prevents saving scripts improperly.
Also, when you run masterupdate, the ONAM records show as 'unresolved' in a lot of plugins.

Well I suppose the trend is continuing. They managed to hose the kit even more than previously thought possible.

» Thu May 03, 2012 6:55 am

Maybe the .NAM files are new to New Vegas. While I own Fallout 3, I haven't had it installed in... a long time and I didn't enjoy it enough to bother getting or making mods for it. I don't own any other Bethesda games that run on the same or similar game engines so can't comment on those.

Regardless, the game itself and the NV GECK as well recognize and use .NAM files to auto-load .ESM files. I don't know if .NAM files can also make .ESP files auto-load.

Queue

» Wed May 02, 2012 6:45 pm

The .NAM files don't exist in Morrowind or Oblivion because neither of them uses navmeshes. They're both on older iterations of the engine where path grids and individually placed nodes are how things get done. A system that, while primitive, is easy to grasp. Navmeshes make my brain hurt.

» Wed May 02, 2012 8:41 pm

But... .NAM files have nothing to do with navmeshes. They're a tiny text file that simply has the name of the DLC they're related to inside. They're just a marker file whose existence the game uses to decide if it should load an .ESM automatically.

Basically, when the game starts up, it checks the data folder for *.ESM and goes through every file it finds and checks if A, it's listed in the plugins.txt file or B, there's a matching file that ends in .NAM.

Queue

» Thu May 03, 2012 2:48 am

Ah. Well it would seem they removed the need for those with Skyrim. The "Update.esm" file force loads automatically and there are no .NAM files to be found. I suppose we'll see how the DLC is handled.