Hi, new to the forums here (though I've been reading it for some time.) I was just wondering how you guys would like to see the Legion evolve over the next few games (if they're implemented) and the general direction you would like them to go as a faction in a video game, I should add. I'm not a Legion supporter myself, but I feel there were quite a number of easy opportunites to flesh out the Legion that were sorely missed. For a faction as large as the Legion, they are woefully monolithic, partly due to design, but partly due to lack of attention.

For instance, it always puzzled me how there was really no divide between the more fanatical believers that were mostly born in the Legion or "converted" to their beliefs, and the less enthusiastic conscripts forcibly impressed into service. And on top of that, for a military dictatorship, a form of government known for internal intrigue and factionalism (Think S. Vietnam-styled coups and counter-coups), there is noticable lack of intrigue of any kind. Now, one could argue that Caesar's iron fist has kept the military elites in check, along with everyone else, but that makes for a boring and monolithic faction.

I think in the future, the Legion needs to undergo a seismic change, and its internal politics need to be at the forefront. I think the eventual death of Caesar and the trasition phase that follows would be a perfect opportunity for the Legion to grow in such a manner. It would certainly be an interesting to see a game set in a time where Caesar's sucessor is trying to assert his control over the military and the people, while a junta of top Centurions begins to encroach on the powers of the Caesar, and the general populace sees this as a moment of weakness for the regime, and begin to rise up. Anyways, that's my two cents.

Any thoughts?

A bit verbose for "I would like to see the Legion crumble", don't you think?

I simply want to see more of them, everything you do gets you ncr fame and there are hardly any legion quests to do, so if you go indy or house you almost have to make enemies with them

The Legion definitely needed more fleshing out in FNV, both for player choice and gameworld interest. And I say that as a definite non-Legion person.

But I don't have any ideas in terms of overall storytelling arcs. I just would have liked to see more Legion NPC's/encounters, a specific Legion-related companion, quests, etc. It's fine if most of the "gameworld" thinks of them as an enemy, but if you're going to make them a joinable faction/alignment for the player, there needs to be more than there was in FNV.

Fallout prides itself on its moral ambiguity, and I feel it's a waste that a major faction is little more than a horde of a dictator's mindless minions. I'd hardly equate that with wanting to see the Legion crumble.

A bit verbose for a "yes", but I'll take it.

I agree with points you've made. I won't re-iterate my points on the Legion and them in the future because I have in other threads and it's hard from a cellphone to type out something meaningful.

As to New Vegas's representation of Edward Sallow's little gang of tribes you have to keep a few things in mind. Game-wise, not lore-wise, Legion suffers due to development time frame which means the end touches on the Legion aren't implemented and Ulysses second draft, after Van Buren, also wasn't which leaves a considerable vacuum.

Still holding an area across the river and coming later into the region obviously NCR has a bigger, wider grip(I'd hoped when the teaser trailer came out the NCR got to the area DURING the MQ and that you'd be based in Vegas first. It would have helped as Vegas wasn't very interesting or well done.)

Secondly keep in mind the Legion's forces seen in NV and how their set up is fully as a war front. Plus story-wise their more war-like, better abled, etc. than the NPCs and programming shows.

As a war front your going to see obviously some of the best and most combat minded of the troops, although not the absolute other than Lanius. The best forces could be deeper in, ala the Ranger Vets mostly being in Baja before being called in.

Even more as a war front we don't get to see normal civilian aspects.

Your basing the Legion off their troops as one in another country would just seeing U.S. troops.

Yes I'd of liked too see strife within that such as Legion dessenters, those who've gone to NCR protection by choice for the time being, or fully committed treason to the other side.

Only example would be Legion executed in Nipton and the guy caught and put in McCarran.

Then there's other aspects not clarified like how the synthesis brung by the NCR's downfall would make Legion, and the new ideology out of as a whole, something coherent and without eachother's weaknesses.

I would of loved to speak to Caesar and others further about the ins and out of what we know as the Legion.

But what can you do.

I would like to see life inside 'civilized' Legion territory. New Vegas gave us a taste (as little as it was) of the front lines of the Legion, but I was always curious about life back in Arizona or New Mexico. I'm hoping they grow a bit more too; under a new leader, perhaps someone who doesn't have any "Caesar blood" in them.

A bit verbose for "tl;dr", don't you think?

Anyway, on topic, I was kinda disappointed by how monolithic the Legion was too. An interesting direction to take it would be to have a number of Legion warlords each espousing a brand of the philosophy laid down by Ed Sallow. You could have the hardliners, who are all for cleansing profligate vice from this earth by killing everybody, and then the more moderate ones who just want to enslave profligates, or adopt some ideas from the NCR/Followers. A hardcoe 'technology is a liability' group, and a gun nut faction. Plus then there are many cool opportunities for Roman names and allusions, which is always nice.

Crumble? no if the Legions crumble, then there are less of them for me to kill. I would rather make them crumble myself instead of making them crumble lore wise.
The Legion are kinda getting a little introduced, and i think they will have something related to their civilian life in the next game, but i doubt the next game would be in Arizona or NM. Many are suggesting philadelphia, NY or chicago.
But yes i would love to be in their territory GIVES ME REASON TO KILL THEM ALL. START OUT IN THEIR TERRITORY, AND IN THE END IT WONT BE THEIR TERRITORY ANYMORE

They did a poor job of dividing the major factions in my opinion. It almost seems like a punishment for choosing the Legion and was very undesireable to choose them as a faction. For story purposes giving them some more explorable territory opposed to just The Fort and Cottonwood Cove would've been nice.

If not roleplaying I see no use in siding with the legion. For every benefit the legion can give you, NCR punishes you, also you are playing almost always in NCR territory, and non NCR factions also hate them, meaning that if you side with the legion you will have to fight against everyone in the map oh, and every humanoid companion will leave you exept for a squizofrenical nightkin who barely keeps herself in the real world

Also I don't see why I will side with an army of misoginus robot-ish slavers. They are only appealing to caravan traders. Hell are there civilians in the legion? I would be intresting to see their point of view, maybe if they live well enought I will say "hey, they may be militaristic-autocratic-slavers, but people inside legion borders have good lifes". But instread the only impression I have of them is "I got to stop this bunch of psychos before they enslave/[censored]/conscript everyone in the wasteland"

I'm crying with laughter at your avatar