I would imagine that Congress, as was mentioned, was adapted, as well as the Senate. How, don't know, but they were mentioned. This is all part of the plot pit.

We could all write something up, and make it believable and interesting, and all be wrong.

I really need to build a comp and play Tactics again, I can't remember the deathclaws or anything else from that game.

"Hey guys, since we're basically dead, let's build another giant killing machine."
".....Why?"

Considering that their main head-quarters was obliterated along with what was essentially their entire government and the majority of their population, a change to a martial-law dictatorship is perfectly reasonable.

Actually its more than reasonable, in my opinion its completely necessary at this point. The Enclave by Fallout 3 is essentially a military organization anyway, there really isn't such as thing as "civilian" politics.

I don't know if you've read Tom Clancy's novel "Executive Orders" but the setting of the book closely mirrors the Enclave's situation (although for the Enclave its even worse). Essentially the main character is the sole surviving member of the government (he's the VP) after a terrorist attack takes out just about every member of Congress, the President and most of his cabinet, as well as the Supreme Court justices, which basically leaves him to lead the entire United States Government.


Possibly. Its also possible that Eden has a cabinet. We simply aren't given enough information. The only leaders of the Enclave we know of are Eden, Autumn, and the "Enclave High Command."


He actually never mentions congress. He talks about the "Capitol Congressmen" baseball team. But the word "congress" in the context of the American Government is never discussed at all.

Proof: (read the speeches) http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Enclave_radio


Considering the Enclave soldiers often say "For....Eden...." on death. We can presume a near religious loyalty to the man (err..well..computer). They are essentially equating Eden with some sort of God-President. Its not quite that extreme. But at a time when most people would be giving a last rites confession or thinking of family members or friends, their thoughts are for their leader. That's borderline religious devotion.


"Congress" is the term for the entire U.S. National Legislature, (ie. Both the House of Representative and the Senate).

As far as I know, the Senate is roughly (although not exactly) equivalent to the House of Lords, while the House of Representatives more closely resembles the House of Commons.

Although I'm not that well-versed in UK politics myself.

Well, Lt, the one thing I don't understand, is if they are all loyal, umm..why are they a martial law dictatorship?

Martial law is when the military takes over, to keep the peace, say if the people are an unruly mob. Yet...all the Enclave are loyal, and they remain hidden for the most part.

There really are no people, just Enclave, and if they carried on these practices before, why stop?

So, I don't get it, because the types of government and such you guys are referring is when there is a chance of of a revolt or coup or unrest. But the Enclave is not at risk from any of that, especially when in hiding.

Because they are a military society that's on the verge of extinction. And no it's not, there are plans for martial law to be imposed whenever a civilian authority cannot handle the situation, like after a major disaster. The Enclave is a very militaristic society with very heavy leanings towards paranoia and extremism, their society has evolved to reflect this.

There is no civilian government, hence their is a miltiary one, hence their is martial-law, which just means that the military is in-charge and not that some bloody civilian repression is taking place. For whatever reason, Eden is not holding open elections.

Doesn't make sense. And if martial-law, Autumn would be in charge, not Eden. They are isolated, no threat to them, they are not out keeping order.

There is no threat from coup inside the Enclave, as you guys say they border on fanatics. So who are they keeping in order? But, of course I think the Enclave was a shadow govt who basically used the war as a way for them to take over, so basically in a sense the Enclave is a coup.

The only thing they are really governing, is themselves.

No its not. Martial Law can be implemented at any point of crisis in which the necessity for efficiency outweighs the beliefs in civilian control of the government. The obliteration of more than half your population is a text-book case for the necessity of Martial Law.

It is the rule of the military, and given that in Fallout 3 the only leaders we see or hear of (besides Eden of course) are military commanders or members of the "High Command" we can assume that the military controls administration in Fallout 3. With Eden as the commander-in-chief (as President).


No he wouldn't. The President of the United States is the Commander-in-Chief of the United States armed forces. It isn't a symbolic or ceremonial role as in other nations. In the United States, the commanders of the military answer to the President as their superior.

Alright fine, whatever; it's never explicially stated that they are in martial law, given however that martial-law will be declared - along with a state of national emergency - after a nuclear war it's clear that the ability to declare such a state is both perfectly feasable and a perfect justification for a devolved, military controlled government, you know like we've been discussing re Congress in Raven Rock and all. It's not a coup or any such [censored].

Yes I get that also, but they are not governing anyone, or doing anything, for that matter.


Alao, being militaristic means nothing. The USA today is militaristic, but still a democracy.

What do you mean? They are governing themselves.

Exactly... and why do they need martial-law or a dictatorship to govern themselves? They are loyal, no risk of coup or revolt. The Enclave, as messed up as Richardson, and as crazy as some were, were still a democracy. There is no outside threat, they go east and go hiding so I see no reason for martial law or dictatorship. Which are both used to maintain order and control, but there is no "civilian" threat.

Because Eden is a despotic ass-hat who wants to be President for ever, end-of. It any event it's used to justify the fact that there is no civilian government, another thing which is likely Eden's doing.

There reason is because the entirety of the government in Fallout 2 was obliterated, leaving essentially only military soldiers and their families. If this is the case, who is going to form the government in Fallout 3? All military personnel. Hence, Autumn, and the reason why he is essentially the VP.

You are under the assumption that Martial Law means "keeping control of disloyal citizens." That isn't the case at all. It can certainly be used in the case of external threats as well, which includes the threat of the wasteland and the threat of scarity of resources. The Enclave is in a state of crisis the entirety of the time up until (and including) the events of Fallout 3. Its what happens when your government and most of your population and military are completely killed. Down to the last child on the Rig. Martial law and the rule of a dictator is needed to ensue efficiency and to prevent undue debate and a loss of expediency, caused by elections (forming of political factions and election coalitions) as well as debate over legislation. Martial law of course does also ensure the elimination of internal threats.

Also you know what? The Enclave did have reason to fear internal threats. The loss of the Rig was never fully explained and for all they knew, one of their own took it down. Dr. Henry even says that all he heard was that it was the result of internal sabotage. Then of course you had that squad of Enclave soldiers who helped the Chosen One, and of course there is the possibility that Dr. Curling released the virus in the Oil Rig. There were dissidents in Fallout 2 and a following the destruction of the Rig there was likely a very real fear of treachery.

So yeah. Internal threats were never out of the question for the Enclave. Eden and any other of the Enclave High Command involved in the decision to go for Martial Law were pushed by the necessity of it. Eden did what was necessary based on the mess caused in Fallout 2.

Ya but he is a computer. Prerty sure the code Autumn has can shut him down without blowing up RR. Doesn't the LW still basically order him to destroy RR after saying the code? But none of this really explains why they would hand over their traditions. Or, maybe they do have a Congress and practice democracy.

It is interesting stuff to debate and think about, and I do think Enclave discussions do not have to resort to fights.

No he can't. Its a self-destruct sequence for the base.


No.


Yes it does. Its all perfectly valid reasoning. You just don't want to see it as such.

Kill off half the U.S. today and see if we still hold true to our traditional values.

I don't rule out anything. This a discussion, not facts. In fact the actual death toll from FO2 is speculation, and numbers in FO3 are speculation, but I came up with good guess before of 1000.

But, they are not all soldiers, and seeing how we don't know actual casualties from FO2, and thus have to assume survivors composed of troops, scientists, engineers, and plain john doe civilians, why not vote in new people?

Also ya it was self-destruct code. But he still a computer, and could be turned off without blowing up the base. Or worse case haul everyone safely to AAFB and say the code, if for some weird reason it can't be disabled. But really this enclave stuff should have its own thread, cuz got off topic from FEV.

"You should leave as soon as possible. But I'd rather have the weight of a thousand on my conscience..."

Curling confirms that there were 1000 on the Oil Rig, so 1k by Fallout 3 seems for too much; I'd put it at 300/400 tops.


How many plain-joe civilians do you see at Navarro? None, entirely military personnel and military scientists. Why not vote people in is entirely Eden's decision, ask him.


The ZAX runs all of the systems in Raven Rock, you can't just "switch it off" unless your willing to abandon Raven Rock essentially; and as for maybe purging him from the memory banks how could you ever be certain he was entirely removed, not least who would actually be tasked with doing it.

I'd think that instead of facing genetically engineered Enclave super soldiers in the next FO, there should just be a corpse with APA and a note/holodisk telling that he/she was the last and how he/she commited suicide. Just posted this here to get Enclave fans opinions on this new idea of mine.

I agree 110%. I will take it a step further that there should also be a BoS corpse, Legion corpse, NCR, a Super Mutant, and a Radscorp. The final showdown.

Preferable to seeing them return again and again; I would prefer that they juts end.