Oh dear.... I did not know that... Is that really Ron Pearlman... Hellboy himself... ?
Sarcasm mode off
Survival is part of that theme.. the games turn you lose on the world that is ravaged by war and where "war" like situations will always be present. On a second level it is about how civilization is basically built on conflict.. or that no civilization will ever adhere to peace.
(btw nitpick: Ron Pearlman voices the authors words... they are certainly not his own)

Your opinion, nor mine btw.. (to make things clear) does equal the truth...
The main problem (and this is an actual argument) is that there are fans who feel that playing a different race would alter their enjoyment of the game. Because for them it would be a change of style they don't like.
Your argument is that is should be added because a ) People want it and b ) it adds to the rp element of the game.
Well if we added everything groups of people wanted we could also use this argument to: Add cars, kill the hud, make it isometric again, etc.. etc..
Adding choice of race (as in creature) adding to RP aspects of the game ... I don't see it..... it would be very shallow additions ..
The main argument is however that FO is first and foremost a story driven RPG. Where TES developed into a freeroam RPG.. In TES your toon is considered a complete blank slate..., where as in FO part of your background is always known. (TES we never know why you are a prisoner. FO we start the game because of a MQ related element forces your toon in a situation)
Apart from FO:NV every toon saw the ravaged wasteland (as a human) for the first time.. It is part of the charm of the game.. it is part of the franchise.
Fans of franchises..., like it or not will always be conservative.. and in the case of FO3 there are actual arguments to make you understand that view.

Yes you are....
And I never claimed otherwise.. I just explained why people would not accept them as a playable race (ie faction)
In FO3 they were, as some felt, an easter-egg taken too far... and have a possible controversial impact on the lore
Since there is no story impact... one could consider them to be an extended easter egg.. (Which it likely will remain)
They are however not in New Vegas... They are in your Vegas... as ..... an ...... easter egg..
How... The wild wasteland trait adds them to the game.. (as well as Indiana Jones, Star Wars named characters, holy hand grenades etc..)

[This is a glitch.. Normally they are not (!!!) in FO:NV. They will be replaced by mercenaries..
Oh tip don't use hearsay as an argument..


I just explained why me and others consider them not to be a " true" part of the FO-verse...

I did not say he said it was Ron Perlman's mind, that was your own opinion of the statement. I just said that his voice said it, to which it did.

War is the statement of the Fallout games. Always has been. It's not about survival, nor anything else. That is a segment of it, not the point of it.

But that's just my opinion on the philosophy or point of the overall Fallout games. Take it as you will.


My opinion? it's a fact here. A new player race wouldn't do anything to your gameplay, as you obviously do not want to play another race.
If you did, we wouldn't be arguing this point. It's as simple as that, really. Also, you are deeply hypocritical- one minute you say that opinion
does not equal truth, then you go onto completely dismiss that it adds to the RP element because of your own opinion disagrees with the idea:


On the last point you proceed to further your own opinion with an opinion shared by only half of the fanbase. The other half accepts this alien lore.
And to add to this acceptance, Bethesda now has claims to the Fallout license. The DLC "Mothership Zeta" is official. It's canon. Disagree if you will.

However, still, aliens are extremely unlikely as a player race, that I can agree with. For the ones showed in lore are completely beyond human comprehension.
Both in speech and in intent or thought, even technology. They are but an old easter egg to the Fallout humour of the second game of the franchise.


Fallout and The Elder Scrolls are both open world, role playing games. Story nor free roam is specificed to be the main feature, that is opinion.
Your character is a blank state in both game series. All of these games give small titles or definitions to add to that character.
Whether you accept them or not is of your own opinion. Bethesda nor Black Isle nor Obsidian enforced you to do so, they only hinted you to do so.

In the end conservative fans will always be conservative. If you don't want it, just say that. Don't avoid blatant honesty to make your opinion more valid.

Well let's drop this shall we...
First of all you corrected my interpretation as faulty.. fine.. I than expand on my anolysis by explaining and partly agreeing... so..

No it is not a fact. Additions to the game of races chances the basis of the gaming mechanics. If it where just avatar changes... than no it would do nothing to the gameplay.. However since we know that for example ghouls are not held in high regards or the fact they are resistant to radioactivity inherrently will have an impact on how the game can be experienced..
Me not agreeing with your line of arguments or the notion it should be added as an option.. doesn't mean I would never consider playing with a non human.
Also I question whether it adds to the RP experience of a Fallout game.. give us some valid arguments instead of oppiniating.
I simply don't see (please make me see the light) how adding non humans as playable toons would add to the RP experience of the FO experience.
Either they would have to add traits to differentiate the races (like TES does) which would alienate a lot of fans... or it would be an avatar option... which would be a shallow addition.
That still isn't a fact, nor is it hypocritical... it is my opinion and my argument why... it would not add anything to an RPG in general or FO specifically ( and it's why people are even opposing the notion altogether)
Would I care... well to me.. personally it would feel like a ploy to recreate FO as TES.. Is that the truth... no..

No ... I don't My notion might be shared by " half the fanbase", I simply explain why Old Skool fans are outraged by MZ.. and what I as someone who plays the games as is.. sees it as it feels.. a wacky sci-fi episode in the DLC releases which was not the best DLC released for FO3
To me the Aliens in MZ feel like an extended easter-egg.. Btw.. I feel the exact same way about the OWB DLC. It was joke taken too far.
Is it canon..well I guess it is... will it have a major impact on the lore.... we don't know.. Why... we don't know how they will deal with it in future games... They can very well decide never to speak about it again. Do fans of the lore have a reason to dismiss it because of history... and can they be furious about it ... yes they can..
So basically you accuse me of flip flopping than go on agreeing with me... and go from "they are lore" to " they are just an easter egg".
But fair is fair..shakes hands ... we actually have an agreement..

Fallout is more story driven as your main character is concerned..
Examples:
FO1: Exit vault to fix waterchip...
FO2: You exit your village to find a GECK
FO3: You are forced out of the vault because your father left
FO:NV: You start out in the town you were shot at, you are a courier...

Compare with TES
Arena: You are a nameless prisoner.. who receives a vision
Daggerfall: You start out in cave without any backstory
Morrowind: You are a prisoner.. arrive by ship... and no backstory
Oblivion: Again you're a prisoner
Skyrim: Finally at least we learn why you are a prisoner... what.... we entered skyrim illegaly... and are beheaded for it...
I will judge any future product on its own merits.. However as an individual I observe the notion to add playable races to FO as a silly idea which would make FO in TES clone..
Your (let me stress this) supposed demand that we should embrace it ... is what I strongly disagree with.. (as well as your tone of voice)

Still, if we're putting any races in the next fallout besides ghouls (which i still think wouldnt be that great) it might as well be TES popping in putting orcs, elves, cats, and argonians.

stupid things went here but I got rid of them.

Granted, the people that serve the Enclave may not be racist, but its the Enclave ideas, and the superiors. They got orders to kill the mutants, so they do. I dont blame anyone to be afraid of the Mutants, although i myself always tend to help them when i can. But the Enclave killing normal people, well that makes them evil, and no matter what our little colonel Automn wannabe says about the true meaning of evil, it doesnt justify [censored].

Jesus, people are taking this game/topic waaaaaaaay to far. It some how broke out into a full on argument over racism? Impressive. But anyways, I for one think it would be cool to play as a ghoul but that's about it, probably just because you wouldn't have to change an awful lot weapons/armor wise. But the dialogue would have to be significantly different.

Let me get one thing straight I didn't like the enclave in FO2, I don't like them in FO3.
However.. FO2 does paint a more balanced pictures.. It paints the Enclave as a faction who adhere to a certain philosophy. That is to safeguard humankind.
However... because the wasteland has added genetic mutations to nearly everyone.. that ideal (which by way of execution was flawed to begin with) has become fascist in its execution. In FO3 that notion is even reflected in the Enclave as a whole(sci-fi cliche) their officers are even dressed like nazi's. Plus since we never have any notion of a civilian Enclave.., their millitary foundation is painting them even more as fascists. The enclave as shown is basically painted as a stereo typical nazi faction. The fact that they are a flawed faction is (based on FO3) not longer possible... FO:NV corrects this by showing people who shared the idea but in hindsight did not embrace the execution.


Great get a comment, take away the context and judge someone who argues his support of a fictional faction in a freakin' videogame and inherently accuse him to be a racist.... Wow ....

Nah I am just talking about the Enclave being racist, I mean it's a fake faction in a game, so I wasn't being completely serious, but then Pistolero had to say that subspecies thing which really upset me actually.

Maybe he just worded it wrong, but still.

and I'm not saying EVERYONE in the Enclave is bad, just the higher up's.

Edit.... comment no longer valid

You know, when posters begin revisiting their remarks to remove them, that tells me the thread is getting a little too heated for civil discourse to take place. I'm locking this to give it time to cool off. It may be reopened later, if it can be salvaged from all the off-topic bickering.

Edit: After reading through this, I think it can stay locked. First, it really did belong in the Fallout 4 Suggestions topic. Second, when two members have so much to say to one another that they post nearly page long rebuttals to each other's posts, they really ought to take it to PMs instead of further derailing an already shaky thread.