Difference between the Nordic Pantheon

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 12:15 pm

Yeah, some people think I hit hard, but between you and me, it's merely because I'm lefthanded. :cool:

I'm curious how Alduin was viewed in the Nordic pantheon before the real Alduin showed up and asserted dominance. I mean, whatever dragon figure they had in their pantheon, it must've been more benign than Alduin. Alduin merely played on their sympathies, I think.

Also, I wonder if the Dragon War was a direct result to their focus on Kyne and Shor afterwards. Alduin would've been villified after awhile. But I wonder why Shor wasn't the chief diety to begin with, and why they let themselves get b.s.ed so hard by the dragons.

Shor was the chief deity. He died. The Nordic pantheon has no chief.

Also, a god being the most popular doesn't make them the leader. Alduin/Bormahu was just extremely popular.
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NAtIVe GOddess
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 3:32 am

Shor was the chief deity. He died. The Nordic pantheon has no chief.

Also, a god being the most popular doesn't make them the leader. Alduin/Bormahu was just extremely popular.

I don't think it was merely a matter of popularity. The atmoran religion revolved around totems, with a heirarchy of animals/animal spirits. The Nords already had viewed the dragon as the "chief", so to speak. It was at the top of their totem. Alduin came around later and took advantage of the role.

From "The Dragon War":

Foremost among all animals was the dragon. In the ancient Nordic tongue it was drah-gkon. Occasionally the term dov-rha is used, but the language or derivation of that is not known. Using either name was forbidden to all except the dragon priests. Grand temples were built to honor the dragons and appease them. Many of them survive today as ancient ruins haunted by draugr and undead dragon priests.

Dragons, being dragons, embraced their role as god-kings over men. After all, were they not fashioned in Akatosh's own image? Were they not superior in every way to the hordes of small, soft creatures that worshipped them? For dragons, power equals truth. They had the power, so therefore it must be truth. Dragons granted small amounts of power to the dragon priests in exchange for absolute obedience. In turn, the dragon priests ruled men as equals to the kings. Dragons, of course, could not be bothered with actually ruling.

edit: What I'm trying to get at is seems to me that a pantheon of Shor, Kyne, etc.. is a completely different religion than the one the Nords/Nedes originally had. That the dragon and Shor aren't even in the same pantheon.
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Cash n Class
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 3:45 pm

Shor is in the pantheon. As is Kyne. Kyne is the hawk.

From Shor son of Shor:

"Shor was disgusted with the defeat, and disgusted more when reminded by Jhunal that our withdrawal had been wise, for we were outnumbered eight to one. Shor took on the form of his Totem then, which he used to better shape his displeasure, rather than to shout it aloud and risk more storm-death. His shield thanes, the brothers Stuhn and Tsun, bowed their heads, collecting the spears and swords and wine-knives Shor threw about the broken pillars of the easternmost sky-temple. The rest of us looked away and to our own, not even to acknowledge the thunderclap that signaled our Queen's arrival, who stepped in from the tunnel of her own breath last.

"Kyne had taken the head of Magnar, the jarl that betrayed the weakness of our spear-lines and fled the field. Shor shook his scaled mane. "That isn't Magnar," he said, "Magnar, I fear, fell at sunrise and became replaced by mirrors. The other chieftains are using our forms to lead us astray."


Shor is most likely the snake.

Also, there are hawk heads all over Sovngarde. Tsun guards the "Whale-bone" bridge, which might very well be his corpse. The animal pantheon is the same as the old Nordic pantheon until the Nords were Imperialzed.

The dragon cult had the most power and was the most popular. It was "foremost," because it had the most political power.

Edit: Also, the real answer to it being the Nordic pantheon is because it's Cool and Therefore Correct. It's the only thing that doesn't make it the Nords worshiping Cyrodiilic gods a dump on the lore.
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Madeleine Rose Walsh
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 3:32 pm

Shor is in the pantheon. As is Kyne. Kyne is the hawk.

From Shor son of Shor:




Shor is most likely the snake.

Also, there are hawk heads all over Sovngarde. Tsun guards the "Whale-bone" bridge, which might very well be his corpse. The animal pantheon is the same as the old Nordic pantheon until the Nords were Imperialzed.

The dragon cult had the most power and was the most popular. It was "foremost," because it had the most political power.

Edit: Also, the real answer to it being the Nordic pantheon is because it's Cool and Therefore Correct. It's the only thing that doesn't make it the Nords worshiping Cyrodiilic gods a dump on the lore.

Hmm, good find. That clears some things up.

On a sidenote, the more I think about it, the more I think I should make any Nord character a daedric worshipper. Preferably werewolves. Other Nord beliefs svck. Outside of Kyne at least. And Shor is dead, so what can I do? The whole dragon thing is stupid.
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Nicole Elocin
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 3:28 pm

Hmm, good find. That clears some things up.

On a sidenote, the more I think about it, the more I think I should make any Nord character a daedric worshipper. Preferably werewolves. Other Nord beliefs svck. Outside of Kyne at least. And Shor is dead, so what can I do? The whole dragon thing is stupid.
The only Daedric Prince of any importance in Nordic Myth is Hermaeus Mora.
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Romy Welsch
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 10:12 am

The only Daedric Prince of any importance in Nordic Myth is Hermaeus Mora.

Hermaeus is fine with me. He doesn't do much for me in the last game though, except give a book exploit.

That aside, I don't really care about past Nordic Myth. I'd say I admire the Bloodmoon Nords, who forsook a lot of mainland beliefs, and went their own way (of course, not all or even most were daedric related..Just some. It looks like their main religion went back to a bare basics, Adu/Padomay pantheon edit: if you can call that a pantheon).
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JAY
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 3:00 pm

Making the Nordic pantheon animal gods was a nice touch, I think. It added some connection between them and the Skaal. Both of them are very animistic, and Kyne's sacred trials seem like something straight out of Bloodmoon.

Oddly, despite it's violence, the the Nords who follow it seem more hospitable. There is some racism, but in Eastmarch the rural Nords seem to get along with the Dunmer much more than the ones up in Windhelm. That is not to say they get along perfectly, but they get along better. Even the non-Skaal on Solsthiem likewise treated them better. Many societies, including the Norse, treated hospitality as a major virtue.

I wonder if the ancient Nords referred to Anuiel as the All-Maker. Could the Greedy Man be a kenning for either Shor or Alduin (due to the Greedy Man's connection to Thartagg AKA Alduin), or both, regardless of how positively the culture thought of them.
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Baby K(:
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 12:30 am


The only Daedric Prince of any importance in Nordic Myth is Hermaeus Mora.

Aldudagga?
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Lloyd Muldowney
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 10:34 am

Just a thought:
Could Kyne, being depicted as a hawk and all, be related to the Skyforge?
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Nana Samboy
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 12:44 pm

Just a thought:
Could Kyne, being depicted as a hawk and all, be related to the Skyforge?

That's as good a guess as any.

It's probably intentional. There's also the Underforge, and if you take Aela's quest far enough, you have totems representing a more perverse figure of "nature": Hircine. Kyne (not Kynareth per se) also represents hunters, but in a more benevolent way.

edit: On that note, I think a lot of the representation of gods that come up in Skyrim usually have a sort of counterpart nearby. The priest of Arkay in Markarth leads to a quest giver for Namira, for example. Or Sanguine's quest leads to some debauchery at a Dibella temple.
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brandon frier
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 3:53 pm

Stendarr's vigilant leads you into a feud between Molag Bal and Boethiah. Mara-Vermina.
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Roanne Bardsley
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 12:33 am

The defining of the gods is in itself defined by the workings and beliefs of the one involved, typically the founder or dreamer of a(n) religion.
Patterns of change or abnormalities should be explained by the little or large difference in culture of the afore Jhunal-Weaver or Mora-Tongue.

The true corporeal form of an et'ada is one with bare concept, singular in form, as of originating from The ZERO, like and before Talos/Lorkhan the Usurper.
Atmoran (endurance), Yokudan (passion), Tamriellic (desire), Akaviri (discipline), Thrassian (gluttony), Pyandonean (treachery), Aldmeris (expansion).
All reflective traditions upon the pantheon they welded into form from Anuic base-matter. Grafting by the unity of it's cell life to move it's aspect forth.
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Damian Parsons
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 5:04 am

Aldudagga?
I doubt that is as important as all the legends of Ysgramor.
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Kat Lehmann
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 2:57 pm

Old topic, but I'd like to add something.

The Yokudan creation myth, and afterlife, seems to have very little in the way of warrior tradition. This is very much unlike the Nords, who revel in combat for eternity. This suggests, to me, a very different outlook on it. The Redguards probably find it useful and necessary for living inside Sep's annoying little creation. Without a powerful warrior tradition, you're people are dead meat in the Arena. The Raga seem more focused on survival for themselves, and this is why they have a Make Way god. Before Mundus, fighting was unneeded. Watching out for Satakal was more important, as was helping others not be eaten.

Nords, however, seem to have it built even more into their culture. Sovngarde is centered around the idea of great warriors entering and training to become even better warriors. This mindset, I feel, is probably ingrained for a similar reason as the Redguards: surviving in Mundus. But for them, there is more. They probably view themselves as Shor's personal warriors. Why else would they go to a place he built? This would probably build a very violant pantheon, especially since a major part of their Atmoran tradition was centered around defeating the elves as opposed to mere survival like the Raga.
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Lil Miss
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 8:25 am

Well in the fireside chats there was that 'Reverse Imperialism" thing. Combat, warfare and conquest for the Yokudans fleeing into Tamriel was not a matter of "we want your land and resources" or "we feel like we are culturally superior and therefore have the obligation to conquer you" like it was for the Cyrodiils. It was "get out the way we gotta build some houses." So basically, you may have hit on it exactly. The Redguards fight, and they fight well, as a cultural norm but it isn't a thing of honor and glory as much as it is that living in what is primarily a desert society is kind of hard. With the Nords, it really is "fight the elven invaders and foreign gods because Shor did." It's a religious and cultural thing saying that combat is good.
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MR.BIGG
 
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