The War took place 204 years ago. The entire world was destroyed. Parts of America are rebuilding but they don't call themselves America. Every nation would be just as bad as America or worse off. Some small nations might have managed to rebuild, but they wouldn't be anything like they were before the Great War. They would still be surrounded by a wasteland, and be dealing with all the crap of the past 204 years. No nation on Earth would be just like it was before the Great War. America isn't the exeption, it is at best the average of what the rest of the world is like.

Just speculation.
Consider japan 200 years ago. And there was no nuclear or fossile energy then, no automatic or tactical weapons. There is now. People can still invent and discover and build a new different civilization, not only survive and rely on prewar technology.
From FO1 to FONV we see the birth and growth of NCR and the rebuild of california and it took 30 years or so in a ruined country still at war. who knows what could be done in 200 years elsewhere if they began to rebuild sooner in a more peaceful country without annoying enclave or supermutants to delay progress. We accept slavers and jukies, porm industry and casinos as the first things appearing after war. It is a choice but it doesn't mean it is the same in the whole world. It is a cliche in all post-war fantasy, nothing more.

Just a theory, but wouldn't countries that are more sparsely populated theoretically have done better during the apocalypse? For example, I could imagine Australia and Russia being less intensely nuked than the European countries simply because there's a lot of empty space that wouldn't be worth flinging nukes at. That doesn't inherently mean that civilization is thriving in these places, but it would probably mean that the ecological damage would be less severe.

Shutting down borders keeps the interior safe, sure.
And of course you wouldn't keep diplomatic ties with countries that don't really have anything to offer. But to say they are isolationist as a reason for having no other forces -at all- in other parts of the world seems a bit naive to me.

First you mention Invading China. That right there means the US had forces outside of its borders.

But I don't think it would stop there. It would be pretty hard to invade China and leave boarders open for Chinese forces to escape to other countries; to flank back around US forces. The US would also want some forces in countries around the perimeter of China so if they needed to send in re-enforcements or resupply groups, they could so do while having those forces remain somewhat off the front lines. I can't say it makes any sense to just plop all of your forces fighting in the middle of the enemy country and leave it at that.

It also doesn't make any sense to not have at least covert/Intel recon groups in other countries.
Fact is, if the US and China were the only players left in the world court and they are ramping up for war, that means that other nations, as starved for resources they are, could easily be forced/coerced to ally with which ever nation would recruit them- this could very easily be China, if the US does nothing but leave the ex-UN nations with a bitter taste in their mouths.

Either that or with no real military to defend themselves, China would see a lot of the collapsed countries as options for a strategic land grab. China could also get to South America pretty easily and make a move through Central America. Sure there would be a bottleneck around the Yucatan, but China could almost a mass an indefinitely large group of troops in northern South America, which could also have troops coming by water across to Florida, or shell the coastlines from the gulf.

Either way, I can't see either the US or China just ignoring the rest of the world completely.

This doesn't mean maritime style bases in other countries to play world police.
It simply means small but observational and somewhat self sustaining groups in other countries feeding info back to the agoraphobic mainland.

At any rate- that’s only one example of how news from the outside world could make it back to the US post-great war.

I still really like the idea of HAM radio operators.

Why does America have bases around the world now?

1) They have allies they are helping.

2) They are protecting resources mainly oil.

In the Fallout Universe they don't have allies or friends anymore. The world told them to [censored] off and America did the same. There is also no more oil sources for them to protect. America isn't going to go into a middle eastern country to fight for freedom and democracy as well as watching out for oil in the Fallout Universe. A couple reasons. There is no oil anymore. They don't have any allies any more, they don't give a crap about the rest of the world.

There is no longer a United Nations. There is no longer a European Union. America no longer has any diplomatic, moral or treaty based obligations anymore. Becoming extreme isolationists means they don't get involved in other nations and their business.

America invaded China less than a year before the Great War, so I doubt they have major military bases in other contries. They attempted to invade China a few years before the Great War but that failed and they became stuck.

Also you have to picture that America is the largest supplier of foreign aid in the world, money, food, and medical. They supply the bulk of the United Nations. So with the UN gone and foreign aid stopped, tens of millions would die in places like Africa. The European Union fell apart and went to war with one another. The Middle East would be recovering from the EU invasion.

It is safe to say that America didn't have bases in other nations out side of Annexed Canada, Mexico which they were invading and China. But the large bases they have in the Middle East, Europe, Japan, Korea would be long gone by the time of the Great War.

Please read this post, as it seems you didn’t read the last one at all.

I agreed that there would not be bases.
I agreed that there was no UN

you keep adding "major" in front of things.
I said "small" groups collecting Intel in most places.

The exception to small Intel groups would be those groups that went towards invasion of China.. I'm no General Patton, but if you are going to strike a country (the largest country on the planet, even) , you set up your perimeter (in neighboring countries) prior to doing so.
It makes no sense to go in charging and then decide you need to set up fortifications around the perimeter for re-enforcements and supplies.

The last thing I mention is the state of other countries.
We seem to agree that they devolved into infighting, trying to cling on to at least some power.
But we know that there isn’t really much they can do. And, in a weakened state, i can guarantee that the people of those dissolved nations would side with whoever might possibly throw them a bone. Since the US was part of NATO and as you put it the US told them to "Go to hell", which side would the side with? The US or China? Should the US be concerned about that at all? Or should they continue as you would have them do, by just dropping troops in the Asian continent and leaving the very real possibility of being surrounded completely to chance?

We do agree on many things. I don't believe America had any forces in other nations other than the ones I already talked about, not even small groups, unless you count spies at "small groups." America can spy on other nations from Space. Having spies on the ground would be hard if you no longer have embassies.

As for nations siding with China after America told them to screw off. I don't believe China would be in any position to help anyone. The very fact that they invaded Alaska shows to me that they were extremely desperate to get at the last of the world oil. Since China's military completely collapses after they get pushed out of Alaska to me shows their military was completely based on man power and fossil fuels. Without it they simply couldn't fight off an American invasion. An invasion made worse by the latest advances in Power Armour technology.

This all shows to me that China would have saved everything they could for themselves. Countries in Africa, South America or anywhere else wouldn't have anything to offer China, and China wouldn't waste resources sending aid around the world simply for support. Also have to remember that China was still Red Commies and the Western World was every much against Communism.

If China did go around putting missile around the world, I am sure America was safely watching them from space. Keeping track of it all.

Added lore from the Fallout Bible if I remember right. China's annexed neighbours rebelled against China.

well they most certainly had ppl stations world wide 2040-2050 and most certainly have some post left till the resource war started and some of them got stuck and was to late to bring back to USA, some did probably refuse the order to go back and stays on their posts. then we have all troops that deserted and where they run ... who knows.

then we have the navy and all supply ship′s that was out and drive during the nuke- rain ... who knows where they landed.

Why does America have bases around the world now?

1) They have allies they are helping.

2) They are protecting resources mainly oil.

3) To keep track on their enemies

4) To dig after tech during the war and after the collapse on other nations

5) Its plenty of strategic location world wide to hold.

6) The hole pacific must have bean an battleground during the war whit china

7) USA′s contact whit USSR it not 100 % clear so an base in Berlin or Moskva its possible.

1) Of course I count spy networks as small groups..
Spying from space can tell you a lot about large scale events that are currently happening, but it doesn’t clue anyone in on what is coming or what is talked about behind closed doors., for that you need your eyes and ears to be at those places.. I don’t see the requirement of embassies to supplant someone in amongst a group witch at this point doesn’t have the best means of identifying them as a spy. Think about it this way. China had spies in the US, all without an embassy; in the hostile arms of an isolationist nation which had closed down its borders. The talk is that those borders are air tight, too.

2) Neither China or the US needs to be particularly winning the favor of surrounding countries for the purpose of our conversation. It doesn’t necessarily matter if China’s neighbors revolted or not (as an aside, I don’t think Canada went quietly, did it?). As you pointed out, it is discussed in the FB and what it does do is illustrate that China was indeed going for a land grab. Their intent (realized or not) is what I was have been talking about To expand upon that, can the US afford to just wait and see if China annexes surrounding countries and those countries accept or decline? This would make an invasion into China even more difficult. So, as much info as possible, before wasting all of the resources to send and invasion all the way across the world would probably be helpful. And make no mistake the US would need to have resupply and re-enforcement encampments outside of, but within striking distance of China, for any invasion to have a chance of doing anything. Or else it is again, pointless to commit all of the time and resources sending an invasion half way around the world.

I simply make the case that these behind the scenes things would be happening- regardless of how the events ultimately play out- regardless of what has been shown to we, on this side f the fourth wall thus far..

I don't think it says anywhere that there were, in absolute terms, no US soldiers or spies anywhere else in the world.
Please let me know if there is. Because if not, I gotta go with logic here- that it is less a game of checkers and more a game of chess, or even Risk, if you like.

I also want to throw out the caveat that the “behind enemy lines.,, returning home down the line” is only one way to introduce information about the rest of the world.

you have things such as characters like Tenpenny and HAM radio operators which could shed light.

Spying from space is not that effective sins all important stuff seams to be underground!

They can see where those underground places are and what is going into them. They can see what is going in and out of them. Hell America today has satellites that can read a newspaper from space.


Given what we know about the Fallout Universe, there would be no bases out side of the USA but for China. Spies are another matter, China had spies in America and I not saying American's wouldn't have spies in other countries. I am just pointing out it would be hard to do, mostly because the military bases are gone, and diplomatic relations also all but gone.

But this is getting away from the main topic. The topic is what are the countries like how. So what does talking about American military bases and spying have to do with that?
All that was 204 years ago and there was a nuclear armageddon, so what we are talking about is very irrelevant.

I don't think that actually possible...

EDIT: The whole world being involved in the war is the thesis of the game, if you disagree then I suggest you go back to Fallout 3 where we see the entire Earth from space - it isn't very [censored] nice.

I know space satellites satellites take pictures that yeild fool proof and 100% accurate info, heck they helped us find WMD's after all...
I mean.. Oh.. Wait...

Heh, that would actually explain a great deal about how the great war actually started/who fired first.

I bet you it is

If I am not mistaken the American military has put restrictions on the capability of civilian equipment.


I hope that is just you speaking in a general sense and not directed at me lol.


That is not relevant in the Fallout Univese. When you have thousands upon thousands of nukes and are willing to use them, it doesn't matter if the target is a real military target or a damn hospital. If it looks suspicious you are going to nuke the hell out of it. In a nuclear war it doesn't really matter if it is a location of WMDs or a civilian target. Its not like there will be people around after the nuclear holocaust to hold them to account for destroying a couple civilian targets. Hell they would be targeting cities!

All you need to know is that there is something there and satellites do that job every well. You don't need to know what it is when it comes to nuclear warfare. If it looks suspicious, you nuke it. That simple.

Don't go all conspiracy theorist, Styles. As far as I'm aware, the only way the military could see what someone was reading in the newspaper, is if they flew a drone over them, zoomed in on whatever it was (because some drones can zoom in that far,) and relay that/those image(s) through a satellite. But a satellite itself, as far as I'm aware, cannot zoom so closely.

More on the topic with satellites, I think if major US companies in Fallout had satellites up in space, the US Government would have probably commandeered them for military purposes, like spying on chinese installations, troop movement, etc.

I was trying to make a joke.. but.. The greater point was that Satellite intel is flawed and should not be the only source of extra-national intel that you have.

"nuke first and ask questions later" ethos doesnt really apply here., otherwise, there would be no point in annexing Canada, fighting for anchorage, or invading China. The idea is that when the great war started, was over. Not discerning the military target from the hospital seems kind of silly when literally the entire world is at stake. Or were you going for a "trying to steal our vital essence" type of humor there?

Perhaps, but there does reach a point where being about to reach such resolutions becomes a little redundant don't you think?


Given that I agreed with you in the same post I'd take it as read that it was not directed at you, but rather anyone who tries to say why the rest of the world is probs okay.

Well owning nuclear weapons are pretty is much illegal by international law anyway, in regards to weapons that are directly aimed at killing civilian populaces. Everything's a target in a nuclear war where you have thousands of nukes, you're not going to waste time when someone elses bombs are coming at you loading the regular warheads onto the missiles because you're only aiming for a small specific target. Mentioning potential oil or military interests in Antartica was a great way of why that area would be knacked in; there could have been all kinds of political shifts in that time.

Who knows what shape the British Empire/Commonwealth was in, perfectly good way for Australia, India and where-ever else to get further dragged into the Euro Wars; hell China and the Aussies/British Empire could have been squaring off because one or the other began annexing Indoneasian island and putting ships on them, for example. If it was still the 50'sish mindset there'd be definate British interests all over the world that could drag more countries into global war... go us!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzy80b9wUdE lol



I am sure they would as well. We also know that America had spaced based weapons platforms. I am sure they had very advanced targeting systems and could see what is going on in the ground. Given that Fallout is also very far in the future with an ulternate technology, who knows how far advanced their spy satallites really are.

I'd have to think they need to be huge to be very effective, what with tube tech being used as opposed to solid state.

Sorry I missed the joke

Nuke first would apply to a global nuclear war. Spying in Canada and China would be easy. America knows Canada very well and spies can simply walk into Canada. Getting into China is also pretty easy since America was invading China at the time of the Great War. America had an interest in scouting out targets in China because they were at war. If a country isn't at war with America at the time I doubt they would waste time and resources scouting and spying in it.

lol

Anyway, I'm sure that the US was more interested in making space based weapon platforms, than satellites reading newspapers. They could have the technology for super satellites, who knows, but just going off on what we know, the US became even more of a military focused place, than even when it entered WW2. America in the Fallout Universe, almost became a "Total War" nation, focusing all it's time, energy, and resources to military inventions, tech, etc. That to me says they put most of their focus on big powerful weapons, able to obliterate the enemy from as far as places as space. I'm sure, to help with the ground forces, if they had drone technology, or something like it, then satellites would have been used for as they are now with drones, simply relay stations from drone to base while also taking pics of distant installations and movements.

It had to do with it in a "stuck behind enemy lines trying to get home" type of setup.
204 years might seem like a long time, but when you know it could be, or hear a legend of how it could be better in the US than it is where you and/or your descendends got caught up, then someone might just try and make it to the US to see what IT is like. If one opf the survivor descendants were to make it to the US, then it would be entirely possible for you, the player to converse with them.. Or for them to leave a log of it somewhere. Or for them to start up a faction, preaching how much worse the rest of the world was or even how much they hate the US for what happened. Potential ways that world lore could fit in.

Now that we've come the long way around the bush.......