Why in the world did Beth change it?

In Morrowind the Dunmer were a low 30 for willpower with a +10 destruction. The same was in Obvlivion. This makes them plain old average. In Morrowind it was Altmer, Bretons & Orcs who top at destruction.

When I think of Dunmer I automatically think Morag Tong -> Dark Brotherhood ninja assassin style of character (plus the Dunmer connection with the deadric lord connected to assassination).
or I think of ashlander archer / blade style of character.
or I think of the Dunmer and their attraction to necromancy. Even in Oblivion it was a Dunmer lady with the fetish for the dead.

When I think of mage specializing in destruction I've always pictured Altmer or Breton at the top for having electrics shock from their fingers, freezing people stiff or throwing flaming fireballs through the air. Dunmer aren't the race that would spring to mind. Why I wonder did Bethesda change it on Skyrim?

Does anyone else agree it ruins the Dunmer feel to have a wizard related skill as their racial bonus stat? For me it would have been better to have swopped Dunmer racial bonus stat with Breton.

Dunmer who have always received a race related summon spell and also have lore connected to necromancy, would have had conjuration. This would have fitted better with the Dunmer's dark personality. Then Breton would have been master race of shock, ice & fire magics attacks making far better sense to lore.

Anyone else feel similar views to this?

Not a lore thread.

orcs were good at destruction? i know bretons svcked at it for a fact in oblivion. High elves were the best destruction users (higher magicka started with +10 bonus) But in skyrim they have better illusion which i think fits them better. And since everyone has to be good at something teh dunmer got destruction. But they're basically sneaky ninja mages in skyrim and most tes games

No. Dunmer are coolest sorcerors in Tamriel.

Telvanni are by nature powerful sorcerers, and the magics of the Tribunal were feared throughout the land. Many powerful mages guild members are Dunmer.

So basically, they've always been mages in part, and since the destruction of Vvardenfell and the scattering of their people I'd imagine destructive magic has grown even more useful, leading to them getting better at it on the whole. It makes perfect sense when you don't pigeonhole.

Lorewise, who knows.

Cyrodils didn't get their usual speech bonus, but Beth didn't bother offering any explanation, even persisting in calling them shrewd traders and diplomats.

To OP, why are Imperials not the jack-of-all-trades now either? Why are Nords no longer defensive tanks? Why are Redguards spellblades? Why can't Khajiit run faster or jump higher? It's just how they broke Skyrim's stats down. Dunmer still are average, just they have a 15 bonus to destruction as opposed to a 10.

if thats the case, then why have racial bonuses at all? Just make them all the same. I for one like the extra thought and detail given to races based upon their lore and culture.

Surely conjuration would have suited Dunmer better than Bretons. This is still magic.

Destruction magic I think of as mages being closer to the natural elements which I thought was more in line with Breton culture - fire, ice and electricity. Dunmer I thought culturally were closer to ancestor spirits and includes shamans in much of their ancient lore

Dunmer have always been better at Destruction than Bretons. In MW and OB, Bretons had no Destr. bonuses at all.

No they weren't

Bretons were 50 at all willpower which governed destruction where as Dunmer were the among the lowest with 30 for all willpower. Dunmer received a added boost of +10 for destruction so how is this higher than Bretons with 50 willpower straight off? 50 is the highest given to a race and 30 is the lowest given to a race.

Again in Oblivion we see Breton get the highest racial start of 50 for willpower and again we see Dunmer get the lowest with 30 willpower.

Having a high willpower doesn't mean I'm an expert using any of the governed skills. I may have high strength, but does that mean I can use a warhammer really well when I trained with blades in my youth?

Female Nords and all Orcs have 50 Willpower too. Makes them good Destruction mages, amirite?

It's not that simple. In Morrowind, Willpower increases the chance of successfully casting spells in all schools. In Oblivion, it increases your Magicka regen. It's not a direct +10 to all skills it governs.

Are there any racial governing attributes in Skyrim? I was of the understanding it was just race related starting bonuses on particular skills and then governing attributes is not racial but is done solely through leveling up with the three choices (health, stamina and magika). Everything else after is effected through the perk star sign trees.

In Morrowind and Oblivion I thought that the governing attributes were a very importance aspect in levelling up.

A Nord trained in heavy armor and filled to the brim with points into endurance can still stand there casting 'open easy lock' spells at a door and reach 100 alteration regardless whether he lacks a racial bonus. It won't make his magika any bigger but due to his warrior chosen attributes he will have a large carrying amount and the swing from his axe / sword will give massive damage.

So in Oblivion, will a Bosmer with starting 50 in speed who adds points to speed every time end up with a higher speed attribute than a Breton who starts with 30 speed that also adds points to speed every time when levelling up?

No. A 100 speed breton is just as fast as a 100 speed bosmer. It doesn't matter when they reach 100. The only attribute that is better to level early than late is endurance, where a 100 endurance male nord would have more health than a 100 female bosmer.

Dunmers DO have a strong connection to Necromancy, in that they hate it. Ancestor worship and all that. Still though, I don't see why Dunmeri shouldn't be the best at Destruction. Bretons have always been better at healing and strengthening magic, as well as summoning, and Altmer generally prefer Illusion and Conjuration to Destruction. Dunmer just filled the void.

The dunmer have an oddly specific definition of 'necromancy' that they denounce while simultaneously binding their ancestors bones and spirits to service.

My guess is that it's okay to necro your own ancestors, but necroing another's ancestors would be akin to kidnapping.

That's a pretty simple way to put it, but when you dig right to the bone of the matter then yes. It also ties in with the Dunmeri sense of duty to family. A Dunmer, upon his or her death, is culturally primed to both hope to be allowed to simply fade back into the Dreamsleeve and to accept if they are kept individuated in order to continue to serve their family. Being forced to serve someone else, being denied both their final rest and their honor as a guardian, is considered the harshest of cruelties. Which is given further irony when you look at Dunmer acceptance of the slave trade.

Wouldn't some want to persist as daedra? It might just be some Telvanni, Ashlanders and Dres trying to do that. Which makes me wonder what Telvanni monks do when the're not training people in sneak, hand to hand and blunt weapon. Unless Trinimac was a mortal once, I can't think of any examples of that being done, but Dark Elves did believe in it.
And to OP, in Arena and Daggerfall in theory, Dark Elves were the "spellsword" race. In Morrowind and Oblivion, their speciality was made lighter for the Ashlander style. They've only had any bonuses to actual stealth skills in Skyrim where the're the new Argonians (the old "nightblade" race" outside Morrowind). With destruction.

Yeah Skyrims skill bonuses do not really reflect what we know of all the races at all. Redguards should hate magic, Nords are supposed to be rough and tumble rude barbarian types, imperials are supposed to be silver-tongued, Dunmer are supposed to be feared and respected for and I'm paraphrasing here but, "Their skilled integration of blade, bow and magic". Dunmer are supposed to have this skill set given what we do know of them IMO. I think anyone would be hard pressed to disagree with this.

Dunmer
-One Handed+5 -they are a warrior people. Ashlanders, Ordinators, Buoyant Armigers, Redoran, and Her Hands as prime examples.
-Illusion+5-Morag Tong assassins and Telvanni would make good use of this skill so it makes sense that they would use this. Besides I imagine illusion would help keep slaves in line back in their slavery days.
-destruction+10-powerful Telvanni Mage lords, a powerful Mer race so proficiency with magic is to be expected.
-sneak+5-They founded the assassination guilds both directly and indirectly.
-conjuration+5 if anyone deserves a conjuration bonus the Dunmer do. They are te only race other than the Orsimer to actively worship Daedra and their homeland is crawling with Daedric ruins and they have a hatred for and familiarity with Necromancy and even practice a cultural form of it with their ancestors. They even can summon their ancestral spirits at will.
-Archery/Light Armor+5-for obvious reasons. From descriptions and their type of armor. Though Medium would seem more appropriate.

Hell the Dunmer feel like the devs made them to badass and their major downside is their attitude and temperament. I was always under the impression that the reason the Dunmer never conquered their neighbors was that they were their own worse enemy and had a hard time putting aside their own differences like the infighting between the great houses. Morrowind had fought off the empire twice. Once till they had the emperor assassinated in Remans time and that was a war that lasted like 80 years. The second time they forced a highly favorable deal from the empire in exchange for their final surrender. They be scary when you really look at things.

Kind of funny I had a mod made to fix these very issues. Lol

I think some might, but on the whole the Tribunal religion is probably the first we've seen so far that goes balls-out and says "dude, reintegration into an oversoul." Sure, the more old-style, Daedra worshipping sort probably think in terms of ascension or even simply being granted immortality in death in service to their Lord, but that may depend on the Prince in question.

The Dwemer would be the first. The only god they cared about was Numidium, who was supposed to be an oversoul.

Well, I can go with that, but they definitely framed it differently. I tend to call the Dwemer "attempted self-theists."

I don't remember any priests saying that! I thought that one of the perks of having living gods was that they could provide a living person-centric destination. Vivec might have had other ideas though.