for example if there are two stores that smiths you should be able to pit them against each other for lower prices to such an extent that they are giving things away for free to keep there business. I know its not realistic but it would be fun and thats the name of the game

Well, it would just goes down to how they make their quests. From naked Nords, to a pelvic bone of Pelagius, it all depends. You can make it fun by doing what you want. That is the true name of the game.

but just fun dialog choices, rewards for being high level in speech or barter.

Rather than create such amusing applications for things like Speechcraft, Mercantile, etc., they found it simpler to just remove them in the later games. Of course, the expense of voice-acting all of the possibilities probably had a lot to do with it.

they dont need voice acting all that much...

They seem to be doing that with every new Elder scrolls game.
Things that may have been almost useless or too cheap is simply removed instead of balancing it or making it work.
for example : Levitation, Water Walking, Spell Making, Acrobats, Athletics, No restrictions for what enchantment you put on something, ETC.

I loved Water walking even for how useless it was, I also liked the idea that I could make a Hood that set me on fire if I wanted to.
I think the problem is that most game developers don't realize that no matter how useless something is, it intrigues the player that there's still an option to do it weather they actually do or not.

I think they should make most situations have multiple ways of dealing with it and create situations that feel like you needed your high level skill to deal with.

Like a door of magical Ice obstacle that requires you to either have a very high level weapon skill and you hit it several times and it breaks, a high level magic skill that allows you to blow it apart or melt it. Or a high level speechcraft that allows you to convince someone to tell you how to get pass it or convince them to do the dirty work for you and blow it up. Stuff like that would be cool.

Archery ranges/contests would be cool as well something like the way Zelda games have implemented it.

Melee only fights with non-lethal weapons to try and claim a prize with increasingly difficult enemies. No buffs or magic allowed. Just blunted wooden swords or cushioned maces etc etc.

Timed challenges that require you to get through various obstacles that require magic and/or stealth to get through. The faster you get through the better your prize up to a unique and useful item. This would then be replaced with a nice but rare generic item so you would still have incentive to go try through the course again.

Conjuration battles between Conjururers. You don't know what your opponent will summon but you have to pick yours carefully.

A capture your own monster and battle it against other monsters arena type deal.

An arena like Oblivion's but more polished.

Stuff like that. There should be some minigame things like the above in the game to add more things to do. These things should also be fun.

If only if only

Lol there was actually a pretty cool similar thing in New Vegas Old World Blues. You had to sneak through all these obstacles as a test for a new armor set. Was pretty cool actually. So it is doable, but if only, if only...

I don't think that idea is fun, and I don't like that it's not realistic. What is so fun about people nonsensically giving away everything for free?

Acrobatics, Levitation and Jump spells probably had far more to do with enclosed cities, height-based dungeon layouts (eg. jump-down quick exits), and dungeons that only look right from certain angles.

I'm not sure about Acrobatics and Jump spells but you are certainly correct about levitation. Closed cities means no levitation.

I'm not sure I fully buy that idea. They could have dealt with the problem of "flying over walls into a dummy city" by having a cell boundary above the wall, and using loading screens if necessary.

There's another argument that levitation would have eliminated the challenge of Oblivion towers; this is also spurious, since there was already a precedent in Morrowind for places where levitation didn't work.

In my opinion, they could have nerfed levitation (by making it magicka-costly, and short-duration) without eliminating it completely. The really neat thing about the older TES games is that you had to think in three dimensions. It added to the sense that you were in an actual "space."

You are right: they could have chosen to deal with the problem in other ways, loading screens being one of them. They could have handled it many, many other ways and we could debate endlessly about which of those ways we prefer. But that was not my point. My post was concerned with which solution they did choose. They chose to eliminate levitation.

They chose to eliminate levitation in Tribunal. Why? To prevent players from levitating over Mournhold walls into nothingness. They chose the same solution in Oblivion and Skyrim. Could they have chosen to implement invisible walls and loading screens in Tribunal, Oblivion and Skyrim? I'm sure it would have been feasible. But, as I say, that's not what my post was about.

You're right. That's what they did.

Edit: I re-read this, and I think I come across as being "flip" and argumentative. What I was pointing at was the "more fun" thing. I definitely find it more fun to have more choices, more ways to play. I'm frustrated by changes that impose limitations on free game play, even if I understand why the changes may be "needed."

OH! You're my best friend, in a world we must defend!

yeah sounds good, shame theres only 1 blacksmith in most towns in the past 2 games

Lol well I was thinking more like Dragon Quest VIII's Monter Arena meets Oblivion's Arena meets Tribunals monster battle thing. Not so much Pokemon but the idea is basically the same and I get the reference.