Okay, when I put mods in their textures/meshes folders they show up fine, and esp file is in the data folder like it should be. It all works in game, unless I add more mods. When I add more mods, the other ones turn invisible, so adding more mods makes the ones that were already there not work. I don't know what's going on and I don't know how to fix it. So any help would be nice?

When you say they 'turn invisible', how are you looking for them? Windows Explorer, OBMM, Wrye Bash/BAIN, the Oblivion launcher? We need a lot more detail.

-Dubious-

I mean on the actual game, while playing. When equipping the mod item it simply isn't there. And it makes that item slot disappear. Whether it be a weapon, armor, greaves, etc.

Hmm. That is wierd. Haven't encountered anything like that, but then I've barely gotten any playing done. Sounds like the items are there but the meshes are missing.

Let's see, from the items you mention they are all in your inventory, correct? Is it only in the inventory they are 'missing'? Are they equipt on your character? Do they show up in third person view? How about if you drop them on the ground? If so, they could just be missing the 'icon' texture, which is a 'dds' file stored under 'textures\menus\icons'.

But looking back over your description you say they appear until you add another mod. Which sounds like something is overwriting. How are you managing your mods and load order? Do you use BOSS? OBMM or Wrye Bash? Do you create a Bashed Patch? If so, which one: the Python Bashed Patch or the CBash Patch, and which version and type of install did you use? How close are you to the 255 mod limit?

How about two specific examples: one item from a mod, and then what mod (and item if you know it) that seems to 'replace' it. Give the mod names. Does this only happen with items from particular mods or does it seem random?

(See what I mean by more detail? We can't see your screen, so every bit you can give us helps.)

-Dubious-

I'm nowhere near the 255 mod limit. I have 32, but only have a couple activated at a time.

It happens with ALL mods, once I add another mod to the meshes and texture folders in the data file of oblivion they disappear. i.e. World of Warcraft Lich King armor and weapons, is the only one I had in the folders, I then added a mod called Shadowvale Manor, which is a house, dungeon, armor, weapons, and a lot of other stuff all in one. They are all correctly in the meshes and texture folders. But once I added Shadowvale Manor, the World of Warcraft mod disappears.

By disappear I mean it is absolutely gone, invisible. When I EQUIP the item it doesn't show up, that's what I mean by disappear. When I drop it on the ground it doesn't show up on the ground but it's still there, just not visible. I'm managing mods with no program, I'm just downloading them and adding them to the correct folders. All mods seem to work correctly until I activate another one. They appear in the inventory, but with no icon (like a weapon icon, etc.) They don't show up in third person view, or any other view at all.

I don't know what a Bashed Patch is since I just got the game for PC a few days ago, so I'm pretty sure I don't have it. All the mods work perfectly until I add another mod.

Okay, that's something we needed to know. This is your first attempt at 'modded Oblivion'. I know you think you have installed the mods to the right folders correctly, but obviously something isn't right.

First of all, we don't know what kind of experience you have with computers or modded games in general, but even professionals with DECADES of experience have a lot to learn to get a stable modded game going. This is not like a console game where you simply plug-in a module and are up and running. There are all sorts of non-obvious interactions going on you have to become aware of. Most of us are simply gamers who want to get playing as quickly as possible. Coming to the game at this point in time means you get the benefit of a lot of 'lessons learned' the hardway by our predecessors. But you have to take the time to study those lessons to take advantage of them. Which in turn means you will need more patience than with less complex games. If you aren't willing to spend the time, save yourself a lot of heartache and just play 'vanilla' Oblivion for a while.

The first of these 'lessons learned' is: you do not want to try to manually install mods unless you are willing to 'get deep into the weeds', where the 'weeds' are the technical details of how the main game engine works with mods. So instead you need to invest a little time up front in learning to use a 'mod manager'. There are two front runners (Oblivion Mod Manager, abbreviated OBMM; and Wrye Bash, abbreviated WB), but only one real choice: which is Wrye Bash. (This is a subjective opinion but pretty much the consensus among the players with the longest stable games and/or the most active mods.) WB is still being maintained and improved, while OBMM is pretty stagnant. WB is more of a 'Swiss Army Knife' of tools, but because it does more it's worth the time to learn to use it. And fortunately you don't have to learn all of it's features at once. Start with the 'http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35230'. While WB often scares people with all of it's features, just bear in mind you only need to concentrate on one part at a time. And the BAIN part of WB can install OBMM files, though it doesn't use the OBMM scripts. Start with BAIN (below).

The second lesson is that it is critical to get 'the two orders' correct. The two orders are: 'Install Order', and 'Load Order'.

Install Order refers to the sequence in which you install your mods. This is because the more mods you install the more likely a later one will overwrite something of an earlier mod. This involves what is referred to as 'The Rule of One': the last mod to 'touch' a record 'wins'. Only the last change to a record takes effect. But when installing, you aren't talking about 'records' but rather entire files. If you install a mod and then install another mod that changes some of the same files that make up the first mod, the second mod 'wins' ... always. It's version of those files are all that are there. And if there is not a 100% replacement of files between the two mods ... wierdness results. Fortunately most modders know they need to keep their mod's versions of files unique. And sometimes the mod is deliberately making changes to 'vanilla' Oblivion files, such as the 'Official' and 'Unofficial Patches'. Which is another important element of 'Install Order'.

The Wrye Bash 'Installer's Tab' is also called the 'BAIN' (BAsh INstaller) tab, and the order you place mods in BAIN determines your 'Install Order' (higher number 'wins'). The major advantage of WB over OBMM is that if you install both mods and later decide to remove one (regardless of their order), WB/BAIN remembers which files were replaced and restores the ones they had replaced. OBMM can't do that. But WB/BAIN can only do it for mods that were installed through BAIN. If you manually install mods, then BAIN doesn't know about them and can't restore things. It will work with them but it will not 'manage' them. Consequently, planning and setting up your Install Order before actually doing anything is worthwhile and important. Please note you can setup the Install Order without actually installing anything, and then install and test mods one at a time.

What makes for a 'good' Install Order? Start with the Installation Guides on http://tescosi.com/wiki/Category:Installation_Guides.

The Load Order (LO) refers to the sequence in which mods are loaded by the game. The primary tool used for managing the LO is BOSS. Wrye Bash works together with BOSS to sequence your LO. Again, this is dealing with the 'Rule of One', but now on the individual record level. What Wrye Bash brings to the table is the ability to more finely tune 'what is touched', and thus allow more elements from different mods (even different elements of the same record) to work together. This is done through the 'Bashed Patch' (BP). You do NOT have to use the BP, but it is one of the major features of WB. As you install more mods, or wish to customize more aspects of game play, it will be to your advantage to go back to the WBPictorial Guide and the WB Documentation to read about it. But not when you are just starting out.

I know this doesn't seem to be fixing your problem. But it is not a brush off. All this reading, and these tools, really will help you. Assuming your mods are not at fault (and they probably aren't), then a good install order (TECOSI), BAIN, and BOSS should get you going. They are simply the fundamental actions you need to take.

-Dubious-

Did you change your gender?
It just becomes 'invisible' but not actually 'disappear' from the world, right?
This always happens when you equip some gears which are for single gender only, and they would become invisible once you change your gender because there are no mesh settings for the opposite gender.
Here is the Lich King armor for female: http://tes.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=22821

This sounds more like an Archive invalidation issue - something long forgotten by most I expect, but then Desoato says he is installing mods which add to the game, not replace things.

amnes, that particular "invisible" bug only concerns armour and clothing with a male mesh, without a female mesh the game just uses the "default" male one.

Oblivion is sixist like that.

How about when the OS asks if you want to "merge" or "replace" you actually chose to "replace" the folder, removing everything that "was" in there before placing the new files into it?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all up for introducing new users to the great tools for mod installation and management we have and embrace, but it sounds like solving the issue at hand first will lead to a much better lesson learned this time.

It can't be the items from one mod disappear once you install another one but the ESP is still working right... "unless" the resource files got actually removed during installation of the new mod, which made me suspect the wrong choice made during the explorer asking whether to "merge" the folders or "replace" them. Of course merging is the answer that needs to be given, but that's not something everybody knows right from the start, especially not when not being used to messing around with files and folders in one's OS at all to begin with.

Load order would only be to blame when it was a rather specific conflict of sorts between two or more mods, but not the items themselves but only their visuals disappearing with "every" new mod you install, no matter which one, really can't be related to load order or mod conflicts.

It also can't be an Archive Invalidation issue this time, because if it was, it wouldn't have worked with the first mod either.

If there can only be one mod working at a time and all previous ones are missing their resource files, then it is highly likely that installing the last one actually removed the files of all previous ones... which I can only explain by the point I mentioned, replacing folders instead of merging them.

Of course using a mod manager for installation will also get around this, as you won't install manually and give the wrong answer anymore anyways. But still you won't know "why" it didn't work to begin with and as such be missing a valuable piece of information for future mod usage. There are very well certain mods which simply can't be installed right by mod managers or only with a lot of effort. So knowing how to do it right manually, or even only what happens behind the scenes of those comfortable mod manager tools, can only be of use to you in the long run.

Couldn't agree with you more. So glad there are still some experienced members on the forum. That's a point that never crossed my mind, because I went with OBMM in the beginning and then switched to WB and skipped right over manually installing mods over each other. I've done some since, but as I knew I was merging, the prompt never registered on my (alleged) mind.

-Dubious-

It is invisible for both male, and female. And the Lich King armor mod I installed is for both male and female, so it doesn't matter anyways. Besides, when I have gotten the mod to work, it will show up for both genders so this isn't the issue.


No, I always choose to "merge but keep both files" option.

Dubious, thanks for all the help. I'm not new to the game, as I play it for PS3 since it first came out, just new to the PC.
I've downloaded WB and I'm good with programming and getting used to large programs, so I don't think using WB and all its features will be a problem. Thanks a lot for your detailed answers!

If you choose merge but keep both files, that could be your issue.

by keeping both files, if there are any duplicate named files or sub-folders, some of the files may get renamed. The mod can't see the renamed files.

That still shouldn't cause an issue though because the should only be renaming files, not folders.

Right?

In any case, "replace existing" is the way to go, I'm afraid.

I think you are correct about renaming files not folders (I was sleep deprived when I responded), but keeping both files could certainly cause a problem.

Let's say there is a skeleton.nif file.

I install it with Mod A.
Mod B needs to overwrite it, but I choose merge and keep both. That will create two files, a skeleton.nif and a skeleton (2),nif
The skeleton.nif is the original, and the skeleton (2).nif is the new file.

Mod B is looking for the data in "skeleton (2).nif", but ends up finding the "skeleton.nif" of Mod A.

This may or may not be an issue depending on the nature of the file, and the load order of the mods.

Basically, it's a big mess.

Use Wrye Bash: more filling, less mess.

It will matter with textures, if the renaming causes the normal maps to get dissociated from the diffuse texture. No matching normal map makes things invisible.

However, a renamed texture file might as well not be there, as the new name won't be referenced by the mesh, which will still point at the original, so I'm not sure if that can happen.

Replacing a mesh with one that references new textures, and then not having those textures (because they were renamed), can cause similar problems.

Well, I was hoping it was that easy once for a change... guess I was wrong.

I checked both mods, or at least certain releases of both mods, maybe I got the wrong ones as you didn't provide any links, just names, and they shouldn't be overwriting anything of each other. There isn't even an "armor" folder in the Shadowvale Manor donwload I got. So if it wasn't the installation of a "meshes" or "textures" folder removing the existing "meshes" or "textures" folder previously, then it's unlikely to be a file conflict, as there are no files in common.

We're clearly missing some important piece of information here now.

But coming to think of it I even got your OP totally wrong it seems. You wrote "when dropped the items disappear/turn invisible". Never did you write "there's huge yellow exclamation marks yelling for a missing mesh!!!", which is what you would "inevitably" (at least with world objects, the dropped ones) get when the NIF files were indeed missing. No such signs => no missing NIFs.

The only way for a world mesh to turn invisible, but still be physically present, I know of is a missing normalmap texture file ("..._n.dds"). Again there was no such files in common between the two mods you mentioned, so it can't be a direct file conflict, and it shouldn't be either, if one mod just replaced the file with its own, anyways, as there still would be one present nevertheless, enough for the error not to come up.

Now, what exactly could we be missing here? If the old folders' contents weren't deleted when installing a new mod, what else could cause the objects to turn invisible ingame, especially "all of them" and "on every installation of any new mod"?...

That is, unless this point itself isn't totally true and it's only happening with certain things but not all, or not with all new mods either. That'd be the kind of "missing piece of information" I was refering to.