When you wake up in the tutorial to start the game, how much of a head start do you think James has? If you follow the main quest, if feels like James has a HUGE head start in order to have done all of the things he is supposed to have done. What do you think?

He can't have much of a head start. Amata wakes you up pretty darn close to James leaving. As in the vault is still in an uproar. Must've happened earlier that evening, while you were sleeping. He gets more of a head start, because you are unsure of yourself, just starting out, need to get those skills up before you go hunting for him.... or die trying. Probably more of the latter if you go after him right away.

Maybe a 1-8 hour headstart.

The shooting of Jonas + Jame's leaving could've occurred at night, or about a couple minutes, before Amata got you up. However, with the diverse exploration and quests to do and such...I think Bethesda was thinking that the player would have to level up and become more experienced(Which would take time), before the player, has enough build, to actually go through the trials, within the main quest. So, that would make the belief of Jame's going through all these things(Megaton - Galaxy News Radio - Smith Casey's Garage) more believable in a sense...as gaining exp and leveling up, takes some time.

However, if you are a fast player, that likes getting things done early, then it could be quite unbelievable. But even doing that...not really. The only unbelievable part, would be him, traveling to Megaton and leaving to Galaxy News, in that short amount of time, before the Lone Wanderer arrives. I guess he was in a hurry...

Alot of the things James did, he did before you were even born. The main reason why he wanted in Vault 101 besides having a safe place for his kid to grow up, was to find the location of Vault 112. And since he isn't a Vault Dweller we can assume he knew the DC wasteland very well.

So he didn't need that much of a head start.

Edit: If I am not mistaken James never went to Galaxy News Radio, Three Dog was lying about knowing about Jame's location. I know he talks about meeting him over the radio, but can you really trust a lier?

Thanks for the replies.

I know all of you know the story, but here is my understanding. When you leave the Vault, even if you read the computer entry in the Over Seer's computer, the only real clue you have to go off of, if I recall, is Megaton. You ask around and are eventually learn that Moriarty knows where you dad went, which was GNR. You can do a quest for 3 Dog or pass a speech challenge, either way he will tell you that you dad went to Rivet City to see Madison. Once you get to Rivet City and speak with Madison, she tells you he went back to the Jefferson memorial after talking to her and failing to convince her that she should rejoin him. [How else would 3 Dog know about Madison if James hadn't said anything?]

So, at this point we know that Dad took off, talked with Moriarty, sneaked his way to the GNR building, spoke with 3 Dog for a little bit and took off to Rivet City. Once he returns to project purity, he makes some voice logs and heads off in search of a GECK. From there, he is static. As a player, you COULD find the vault he is in "by pure happenstance" [meta game] shortly after starting, but it will be difficult to survive with so few supplies. However, that isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about the normal main quest.

I guess I find it hard to believe how quickly James can get around while avoiding trouble. He is Liam Neeson, but it's not like he left a trail of bodies behind him.

It's not so much of a problem, but something I was thinking about today. I started a new character, and so that came up.

I think it would be awesome if he actually had a time sink of doing those things , so you could head him off at the pass so to speak.

What I don't get is why would he go to Megaton and GNR in the first place, why not right to Rivet City?

I guess he went to Megaton to get caught up on current wasteland events and get supplies. I don't believe he went to GNR, Three Dog is a lier. So going to Megaton and then to Rivet City wouldn't take him that long. As I said he knows the wasteland and therefore knows how to get around.

James doesn't have much of a head start, he is just half roadrunner.

Why do you think 3 Dog is a liar. How would he even know about James and that he left the Vault at that time? I don't see how you come to that conclusion.

So this is a conspiracy between Moriarty and Three Dog, is it? Moriarty tells the LW that Dad's gone to GNR - presumably that's a lie too, right? - and somehow Three Dog gets to hear about it and decides to go along with it? How would Three Dog be able to tell the LW about Project Purity if he hadn't spoken to James? How would he know that James had gone to Rivet City? How would he know about James' connection to Project Purity? Remember, James is just some guy who's been living in a vault for the past 19 years, Three Dog doesn't know him from Adam - unless, of course, he's spoken to him.

The reason that James doesn't go straight to Rivet City, I think, is that he doesn't know that Dr. Li is there. Remember, she only moved there after Project Purity was abandoned, presumably after James had left for Vault 101. James goes to see Three Dog after consulting Moriarty because he thinks Three Dog is a good source of information and might know of Li's whereabouts.

That said, I don't think the timing of this early part of the quest makes any sense. When the LW is woken up, the impression is definitely given that James' leaving of the vault is something that has just happened, i.e. while the LW has been asleep. There's no suggestion that he left days ago and people have only just noticed. Yet if you follow the main quest and go straight to Megaton after leaving the vault, the dialogue there definitely suggests that he was in the town some considerable time before the LW turns up. Ask Lucas Simms the infamous "Have you seen my father? Middle-aged guy" question and he responds that he saw such a person "a while ago" and that this person had a "long talk" with Moriarty. In reality, it should have been more like "Yeah, you just missed him".

Why would James go to GNR ? He knew Madison and Project Purity location long before, he didn't need to ask anything to three dog. No one has seen him in GNR building except three dog, no BOS soldier mention him.
He probably just went to Megaton to get some supplies and news of the wastelands and went directly to Rivet City from here.
He probably knows the wastelands very well, as we can see when he is coming back to Rivet City after the vault 112 episode. he runs and is hard to follow. He doesn't need a big head start.
Tjhen yes, Styles is right : Three dog is a liar.

edit : Perhaps Moriarty just advised James to go to GNR, just as he does with the player, but who really goes immediately to GNR (or at all ?). James didn't follow the advice and went directly to Rivet City.
GNR building is surrounded by Supermutants for some time, how could james enter to meet Three dogs then ?

So let me get this straight. Moriarty, for reasons best known to himself, tells the LW that James went to GNR, then Three Dog somehow hears all about James and Project Purity on the Wasteland graqevine, and finally, when James' child turns up at his studio, instead of saying "Yeah, I heard he went to Rivet City" decides to spin some BS story about having met him and how he's a "real stand up guy"? Why? It would be the height of stupidity to try to fool James' child in this way. If he hasn't met him then Three Dog knows next to nothing about James, a fact which the LW could ascertain with a few simple questions. "Could you describe the man you met to me?" "Could you tell me a bit about what he said to you?" It's a completely pointless and potentially very dangerous lie.

Look, this theory isn't actually impossible, not quite, but it makes far more sense to accept that two independent witnesses who tell the same story are telling the truth than to believe some convoluted conspiracy theory that benefits neither party.

Lyons says something like "Super mutants have trapped our brothers at the GNR station, we are going to rescue them". No indication at all of when this happened. Could have been days earlier, could have been hours. Perfectly possible that James got there and left before the mutants staged their raid.

QFT

I think 3 Dog started GNR some time after you were born. James likely visits 3 Dogg to learn what he can about what he has missed out on these last 19 years. Also, I get the impression that the Super Mutant attack on the GNR building was just starting before the LW arrives, and the thick of it happens when you get there. James had already left by then. We can only assume that because James has experience in the wastes, unlike the LW, he knows where he wants to go and how to get there, unlike the LW. This is the part that is really supposed to slow down the LW and buy time for James to do everything else he does until you find him.

I think my real hang up is: How much time did James have to visit Moriarty, talk for a while and then leave, before the LW shows up?

It doesn't feel right.

Three Dog is a liar because he lies to us. "Do this quest for me and I will tell you where your dad is." You do the quests and he says "I don't really know where he is but thanks for fighting the good fight."

JW1 I never said Moriarty was also a liar. It makes sense for James to go to Megaton to get supplies and catch up on what has been happening in the wasteland for the past 19 years. Megaton is very close to Vault 101 so it wouldn't take any time to just pop in and out and then go right to Rivet City.

Now back to Three Dog being a liar. Remember he does lie to us about knowing where James is located. I get what people are saying "but he talks about James on the radio how could he know about him if he didn't meet him?"

Have you people given any tought as to how he knows about us leaving Vault 101? Three Dog must have learned about James through the wasteland rumor mill "Did you hear about that guy that left Vault 101? I think his name is James?"

Then he learns about another guy leaving the Vault looking for his dad named James. Not that hard for him to but the two and two together and come up with a lie and BS to talk about over the radio.

Start watching @7:48

http://youtu.be/jjNIvZXjz9A

So, he is correct about everything he says, many of things I am sure he wouldn't have known about unless he spoke to James. So, rather than relying on memory... I posted the actual conversation you have with 3 Dogg, which you can also unlock without going on a side quest by passing a speech challenge.

Wow that is one seriously far-fetched theory. You must really dislike Three Dog to ignore the facts of the quest like this just to call him a liar. Maybe you don't like the idea of doing a quest to help Three Dog get the radio station working and he'll help you in return with the information. He won't tell you unless you do his quest (or just just talk him into telling you), so that makes him a liar? You can't get something for nothing, so that means he's a liar? And you just pretend James never really went to GNR? Seriously?


I suppose everyone involved is lying about where James goes, is going/has been? James himself must be lying to Moriarty about heading to GNR, though there's no reason why he would, but I wouldn't put it past him considering he lies to the Lone Wanderer his entire life about being born in the vault - James is the biggest liar out there. Moriarty puts it (the obvious lie James told him) on his terminal where James is going, and also tries to charge you a fee to relay the misinformation dear old dad gave him... Three Dog clearly has talked to James, meaning he went to GNR... Maybe Doctor Li is lying about him visiting Rivet City, too? After all, she could just assume if he was back out in the wasteland that he'd head directly to the Jefferson Memorial to work on Project Purity. And the great web of lies only ends when we get there and find his tapes...

If just one of the people involved is lying, then they all must be involved in a wasteland-wide conspiracy because the fact is that each story backs up the fact that James went to each of the locations.

James noclipes through the DC and right into three dog, and continues to no clip to rivet city and so on. the only way to catch him is to noclip.

Good grief, I can hardly believe anyone is trying to defend this "theory".

I am not going to get svcked into this Twilight Zone any further, but I will leave you with this simple comparison:

Scenario A: James visits GNR

Moriarty is teling the truth. Three Dog confirms this. James tells Three Dog about himself and Project Purity.

- A logical, internally consistent story corroborated by two witnesses, that explains clearly how Three Dog knows about James and Project Purity.


Scenario B: James does not visit GNR

Moriarty is either lying or misinformed. Three Dog is lying. Somehow Three Dog knows about James and Project Purity despite never meeting him.

- Why is Moriarty lying? Don't know, can only speculate.
or
- Why is Moriarty misinformed? Don't know, can only speculate.

- Why is Three Dog lying? Don't know, can only speculate.

- How does Three Dog know about James and Project Purity? Don't know, can only speculate.

Hardly compelling evidence. "So unlike your father" thats a 50/50 guess. "talk about alot of scientific mumbo jumbo" not that hard to learn he is a scientist from others. Knowing about Dr. Li isn't proof, she is a well known person at Rivet City. Project Purity would have been well known in the wasteland 19 years ago, its possible Three Dog learned of James back then and when he learned he was back on the scene he used it to his advantage to fight the good fight.

Moriarty could easily be misinformed. James doesn't want a guy like Moriarty knowing what he is up to, so he throws him off the track.

Three Dog is lying because he is a LIAR. He is also a crazy nut job "fighting the good fight" it would be in his intrest to lie which he has proven. Keeps feeding you BS so you won't shoot his head off.

Read my above post.


Be happy that I am for once trying to defend something about Fallout 3.

Yes, this is harder to believe than the conspiration theory.

Even if Three Dog wasn't lying, there is still the fact that James isn't a Vault Dweller. We can assume he knows the wasteland like the back of his hand.

So say he had an 8 hour head start. It wouldn't take him long at all to get to Megaton. He spends a couple hours there, then off to Three Dog's. So by the time you get to Megaton he is 6 hours ahead of you going to GNR. You spend several hours in and around Megaton, maybe a couple days if you do the Wasteland Survival Guide quests. So now James has half a day to a couple days ahead of you.

By the time you get to GNR its been days since you lelf Vault 101. James has already been to GNR and talked with Three Dog and left for Rivet City.

You do the quest for Three Dog and maybe the quest to get those slaves to the Lincon Memorial. Now James has a week or two ahead of you, and is on his way to Vault 112.

You finally get to Rivet City and you do some quests there, like The Replicant Man. So by the time you finally get around to Vault 112, James has been there for weeks.

Remember James knows the wasteland, you don't. James isn't doing any quests other than his own, you are getting side tracked constently by quests. So his head start keeps growing. Its not like he is only ever 8 hours ahead of you.

And of course... it's quite possible that James left the vault at say - 2AM, but this wasn't noticed until 6AM - giving him 4 hours lead time before vault security/overseer even noticed he was gone. In the confusion of figuring out what all went on, and interrogating Jonas for information (which could have taken an hour or two before Jonas was killed) - Amata runs to you, to warn you of the events.

So potentially - he could have a 6 hour lead on you, easily.

But either way, my LW will remain mad at him - for all of James' knowledge and insight - why did he never take into consideration the possibility that him leaving would send the Overseer into a rage!