Found this on YouTube.

This represents a global flu pandemic. What takes weeks in this video, as far as the system collapsing, would take minutes in the FO nuclear war.

Interesting stuff and good for debates on BoS, Enclave, NCR, and other factions and their survival and growth.

It is 9 parts. Here is part 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r97xoSOEjM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Yep, I've watched this a couple times when it aired on TV. Another one I really like is called "Day After Disaster." Which deals with the effects of a nuclear strike on DC.

Interesting documentaries.

I watched this when it aired. It's pretty good.

It would be interesting if they released a documentary about global nuclear war, instead of just one city. I'm assuming it would be a much different outcome than rescue relief and a shadow government taking over.

I watched it on the History Channel awhile back, and I thought it was a pretty good show.


I watched that last Thursday, and it was a pretty interesting show. The part about what is essentially a shadow government taking political control of the US was especially interesting. It really sounded a lot like the Enclave, or at least the basic idea of the Enclave.

I will have to check day after disaster out if I can find on YouTube.

I havw to say Lt you surprise me. In all debates with my ideas of infrastructure and communications, you always lean to the side that it fairly operable. Yet in this video about deadly flu, the entire US Govt is rendered moot.

Another guy in the FO Movie thread suggesed Threads. I watched that today as well. It was kinda bleh, 80s, but what ya think number one non-military target was? Communication! Lol.

It would appeat the EvilBastrd isn't so crazy after all.

Anyway, if you watch that can basically skip to I think part 5. The begining basically sets up the whole nuclear exchange and other mumbo jumbo.

Maybe can find some more vids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWZ5SF2HLjM

In my mind, they describe exactly how the Enclave was created. The President and other higher ups delegated powers to certain non-elected officials in the event of a crisis senario. They planned that if and when the crisis occurs, these individuals would step up and take control. In the video (the Day After Disaster one) Donald Rumsfeld is mentioned as a post-war official in Reagan's COG plan, and he's a business executive. Reminded me quite a bit of the Poseidon/REPCONN/Robco/Government cooperation.


Something which is my first critique of the video. They never show any attempt by the Government at reestablishing control or attempting to fight-off the chaos. Government efforts aren't mentioned at all really in the "post-disaster" time period. The family comes upon a commandeered national guard vehicle but that's about it.

In real life, regardless of the circumstances, the United States Army and Command Structure would put up more of a fight. Although in the video one could attribute their absence to the government officials retreating to undisclosed locations and planning to reestablish control through force. (hint hint nudge nudge)


*sigh*

1. Simply because it was in a movie doesn't make it so. Although Threads is a pretty accurate depiction.

2. I never denied that communication wouldn't be a target, but I assert that if any communication survived, it would government communication lines specifically designed to operate post-disaster. Which is why those lines are created in the first place. Some government and military communication systems are what I believed survived in the Fallout universe. Hence the Enclave has communication, even if it is limited in some form.

3. If you watch the show in its entirety, you'll see that they still have some communication. Much of it held in the hands of the military and government. I can think of a specific scene where Government agents in a Fallout shelter communicate with outside forces in order to request aid and to get a handle on the situation, as well as attempt to direct relief efforts.

4. Lets not have this debate again....please...

Enough's enough.




I think this one has a little better quality and its all one video (don't have to search for the other parts this way):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCme_K6MYLY

Case anyone wants to watch it.

In case you didn't know, Rumsfeld was a part of Reagan's prez regime. He seen beside him in many speeches. What his exact position was, I can't remember, but a google search would reveal.

The FO world a lot different, with the commonwealths. The Enclave, imo much different, but similar in that they are using this opportunity to sieze total control. I have no doubts CoG would be very effective in case of a tactical nuke attack, but very inept in the case of total nuclear war. I also found it interesting there an estimated 90 CoG facilities surrounding DC.

One problemo. The majority of military resources are not in country. Today, they are all over the world. In FO most are in the battlefield in Alaska or China. That is a lot of manpower lost, and in the case of nuclear war, more than likely, lost for good.


They were using short range radio in threads. In the flu thing they had ham radios that had decent range, but in a world that wasn't devastated by bombs. All I gotta say, is while my theory may not be spot on perfect, but it is plausible, logical, and makes sense. Not like I pulled it out of thin air.

Yes he was, he was appointed by Reagan to be a Special Envoy for the United States. He also served in a number of other appointed positions.

First and foremost though, he was a businessman during this time. That is where is true political power lay. I would argue that this same sort of collaboration between the private corporate sector and the government was what led the Enclave to be created.


That's definitely not the case at all. People overestimate U.S. military presence overseas.

"As of 31 December 2010, U.S. Armed Forces were stationed in 150 countries. Some of the largest contingents are the 103,700 in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan, the 52,440 in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany, the 35,688 in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Forces_Japan), the 28,500 in Republic of Korea (USFK), the 9,660 in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy, and the 9,015 in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom respectively. These numbers change frequently due to the regular recall and deployment of units.
Altogether, 77,917 military personnel are located in Europe, 141 in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-Soviet_states, 47,236 in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Asia and the Pacific, 3,362 in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Africa, the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_East, and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asia, 1,355 in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-Saharan_Africa and 1,941 in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere excepting the United States itself."

"As of 31 December 2009, a total of 1,137,568 personnel were on active duty within the United States and its territories (including 84,461 afloat). The vast majority, 941,629 of them, were stationed at various bases within the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contiguous_United_States. There were an additional 37,245 in Hawaii and 20,450 in Alaska. 84,461 were at sea, 2,972 in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guam, and 179 in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico."

Also keep in mind that these numbers are active duty personnel, there are many more which can be called up from the reserves and/or national guard units who are not active at the moment.

Granted, in the Fallout universe and war with China, most of these units would be deployed, however I'm talking about that Epidemic video, not the Fallout universe.

At the height of Iraqi war there were about 200k in Iraq.

But, I was referring to a total war, like in FO war.

In the flu thing, I say the reason the military ineffective is that they would have been just as risk to the flu as anyone else..

Meaning they died, too.

However, considering that during the Black Death (when nearly one-half of Europe perished and entire sections of Eurasia were depopulated): countries didn't dissolve, armies and order didn't disappear completely, authority didn't crumble totally (although it was weakened), and above all factions still found the time and ability to pummel each other shows that such a "world ending plague" isn't really realistic unless we are talking about an epidemic of un-told almost unrealistic proportions.

But what differs with something such as the Black death is the spread, it can only spread at that period as fast as it can be conveyed, with modern transportation you can spread a disease worldwide within a month, and im saying worldwide, although excluding really remote areas that would eventually get infected. When there were a sudden rise in people with Meningococcal disease, it was made clear if you actually identify it in time DO NOT GO NEAR ANYONE, and because of the massive spread of population its like fodder for germs.

But if you get the chance there is an early episode of Spooks, english series about British Intelligence, this one is about a gas attack in london, and how it would be handled, it was excellent, probably one of the best, but they come up with great ideas and where they lack in emergency infrastructure. Actually one of the best example of a disaster and how it was handled was hurricane Katrina, buildings, communications, water, power, sewerage, plus handling a population, and look out how that turned out, oh and the gulf oil spill, actually i could go on and on and on, this is looking worse by the moment.

Not to mention the size of cities. That was one of the points in the video, the number of people who live in urban settings. In black death times, most lived rurally.

So, you have 20k troops in a military base, and that military base located in say, san diego, well..... I'm sure you get the picture.

But they ledt iut a lot if tech in that video that would make it so people wouldn't have to say, reaort to 19th tech.

Solar and windmill power. Vehicles that can run on veggie oil. A lot of things could and prolly would get running again, just a whole lot less people.

Oh I don't doubt that it would spread faster. That's a certainty. Relatively speaking though, the Black Death did spread quite quickly for the modes of transportation which were carrying it. Once it hit the port of Caffa on the Black Sea, it spread like wildfire across Europe after it was taken aboard trade ships bound for various Mediterranean ports. Regardless of how fast it spread, the death toll in Europe was astronomical. Entire towns in a few cases were completely killed off, and yet, society survived. Countries and governments did not just break down. Yes there were movements against authority (ie. The Flagellants) but governments and order eventually rebounded.

We must also take into consideration our modern knowledge of how diseases work. We know what causes a epidemic. Those in Europe during the plague had really no clue, and it wasn't until the Renaissance era really that methods started being used which could actually help (ie. washing streets which reduced the filth and numbers of rats). With our modern technology, we are in a much better position to confront such a disaster both in terms of biology (ie. vaccines) and in terms of keeping society from breaking down (faster communication etc.)


Sounds interesting, I'll have to look that up.

I really liked this! I wish History Channel would do more shows like this.

You guys realize that the Flu story, was a worse case scenario, which usually means to a TV channel, the bleakest of the bleak x10. They always take what could be the worst of something, and turn it into a show. It wouldn't be very entertaining if it was something like Swine Flu broke out, and suddenly there was the FDA telling you what to not eat, while the CDC comes around giving everything a good bleaching, and clearing it up or whatever. Doesn't make for good television, and ratings.

Basically shows like that are showing you to an extent, what the start for something like 28 Days Later or Mad Max, would be.

I find it very iteresting on how the south usually isnt a target. For example Tenn. has nuclear material SC has multiple power plants and military bases. GA has atlanta one of the most populated cities in america. NC has multiple military bases and military hqs. Alabama and floridas airforce and space programs and floridas major visitation population. It truly bewiders me on why the south is such a small target. Well i honestly dont care because i live here though.