Just re-did the quest three times as Jauffre keeps dying, just gonna leave him dead now as I don't want to do it a fourth time. Is this normal or am I just unlucky? I kill most the enemies before they get close to the others and jump into the big gate as soon as it appears. But everytime I come back jauffre is dead

I've played through the MQ several times, and I don't remember him ever surviving. I usually lose Baurus, too, if he survived the sewer thing.

fair enough, forget I said anything though just got back to the IC. Doing it at level 27 and if he had survived the defence he didn't stand a chance at the IC. Was just a massacre lol xivilais, tough dremoras and storm thingys everywhere. Tried twice unsuccessfully so far. I'll try tomorrow night as I'm getting too tired, 4:30 am here and I'm working in the morning! Such a fool lol thought I could finish it but is proving to be a bit of a challenge, so I'll save that for tomorrow, something to look forward too. I WILL finish this game, if it's not this year maybe the next, but I'll get there!!!!

I have reverse pickpocketed weightless Daedric cuirasses with enchantments before. On Jauffre and Baurus, and a smattering of guards before I got sick of the preparation for battle. I've only saved them once, not with this method too lol. As a mage, AOE Command spells work really well. I'd say I've done the MQ about ten times, and out of those ten times, I've saved those guys once.

At higher levels is very difficult to keep Baurus and Jaffre alive.

If you are on the console you can use the "setav health " command to give them more health. Or you an make them essential when they turn non-essential.

In part it has to do with the awful NPC combat AI. They just charge into battle no matter what they are fighting. And they have no way to heal themselves.

In all the years I've played this game, and I've been playing since 2007, Jaufre dies almost 98 percent of the time. He dies even if I get the seige engine done with 9 minutes to spare. I've done the quest in under 3 minutes and he still dies. ( I hope my times are approx correct) Baurus usually dies too, and often Captain Burd.

My son who does not play Oblivion very much, perhaps 6 or 7 times, almost always has Jaufre and Baurus alive. He does not do the quest faster than I, but his strategy at defending Bruma before the main gate opens must be different. I'd concentrate there. I skip defending Martin because I always kill an ally- there is just too much idiocy going on- I swing my sword and a gung ho guard jumps in at the last second and gets hit- and I gain infamy. Always save during this quest. I concentrate on killing what comes out of the gates instead.

I completed the main quest two days ago and only Baurus survived. I think he may have perished during the final imperial city bit but haven't checked yet. I did not see him there so fear the worst.

It should be noted I'm old and slow and may not be able to defend martin adn thereby keep Jaufre alive as well as a younger person. MY son can move rings around me.

I don't think I've ever had all three live- Jaufree, (sic?) Burd, and Baurus. Forgive me if I've mispelled their names.

Well I'm doing it at level 27 so I'm definitely Fighting a losing battle trying to keep them alive, I'm on xbox so I can't make them essential.

The cheap trick for the last bit of the final IC battle is invisibility. Just cast invisibility on yourself after you speak to Martin (scroll, spell, or whatever) and run to the temple. Martin will follow safely if you are invisible.

The Battle or Bruma is apparently a total crapshoot. On one run-through I had a "local militia" ally turn up with no armor or weapons, and still survive until I came back out, while both Jauffre and Baurus died. They do seem to do better at lower levels, as their (fixed) equipment level is enough against scamps.

This is true. The great irony (perhaps intended) is that the main quest is much more manageable when finished at the lowest possible level, but that the sigil stones are only decent rewards if gotten at higher level.

I've always been happier to finish it early, and feel like my character has actually "saved" something, rather than waiting and getting all those people killed. The sigil stones are overrated.

Considering the current level, aren′t the sigil stones good anyway?

My first play-through, we lost either Baurus or Jauffre during battle, maybe both. But one rings a truer bell. Lost a lot of other guards too.

Second time 'round we lost no more than two city guards. Bear in mind my avatar is a nord warrior and at the time sported full Divine Crusader equipment plus decent jewelry and decent stats for his level. The tactic he used was pretty basic. He'd position himself very near the gates. When one spewed mobs he's rush them and aggro all or as many as possible. He'd whack 'em a bit then lead them to one set of guards, who'd join the fray. Since the mobs were focused on my avatar the guards could whack away without themselves taking damage. By the time the mobs turned on the guards they (the mobs) were pretty softened up. In the meantime my avatar would reposition himself at the gates, attack the next batch of mobs as it emerged, then lead it to another group of guards. This procedure was repeated until the main Gate opened, at which point my avatar rushed through pronto.

The trick, I think, was in making sure only a portion of the guard were engaged at any one time. Seems to me their default formation naturally split the guards into thirds, but it's been a while. This of course assumes a full complement of help from Allies for Bruma.

It worked well, though I realize a non melee specialist would likely need alternatives.

-Decrepit-

I'd say so, but then again, "level" isn't important to my game playing. I have observed that a lot of people put off quests so they can get the "better" loot.

There are two ways of looking at a game while playing. One way is "goal oriented," working towards a future accomplishment. The other is "sensation oriented," engaged in the moment. There's bound to be a mix of those two outlooks, in anybody's way of playing, but some people lean over more heavily one way or the other.

That is absolutely true, I'm ashamed to say I'm more goal oriented ( efficient level every character and quests after level 25) hence the reason i started main quest so late. And also the reason I have never completed any questlines. Obviously I'm reconsidering this due to the fact I'm going to finish the MQ with everyone dead.
But Bethesda are partly to blame for this as their will always be OCD players like me who has to have the best of everything. And the only way to achieve this is to constantly be working towards future achievements. I do wish i could be more sensation oriented " enjoy the moment" kinda player and I generally am with other games but i just find it harder with oblivion, specially as it's the vanilla version.

Well, one possibility would be to become even more "goal oriented," and created a character specifically to do the Main Quest, as quickly and efficiently as possible. You might even find yourself trying to do it at as low a level as possible...

The idea that the higher level versions of things are "better" comes from the idea that higher levels are better. Everything about the design of Oblivion is screaming that higher levels are not better.

One problem here is that we inevitably associate "better" with higher numbers. So the sword that does 500 damage must be better than the one that does 50. Meanwhile the enemies got 20 times stronger, so it now takes twice as many hits to kill them. Was it really worth getting there?

Optimum is "most effective" in my mind.

This was what I was fishing for. As Einstein said, "Everything is relative"

Yup, exactly! I always made sure that I took the full agro in that battle. My character was always equipped with heavy daedric armor and daedric swords at that point. I usually did the Battle for Burma really late in the game, since I wanted to collect higher level sigil stones and I actually liked going into Oblivion Gates LOL

I could never accept that Jauffre would die and so I perfected my method with each play through. I would loose Baurus at times, but most of the time, following above method, we all would make it back to Cloud Ruler Temple.