So why do ya need a mod? Just open the console and make your character a godlike creature...and don't forget the master of all cheats: The godmode (player->tgm)

It's your game, you bought it....so if you wanna [censored] it up, then do it.

I'm sure you will find a complete list of cheat codes in the internet.

I meant no attack either, it is however, typically human nature to read a title of a thread, and jump to conclusions without reading further, your request was initially to make morrowinds system work like Oblivions, which I would say is at least somewhat reasonable to understand why people would have strong feelings towards a request like that, though since mods are 100% optional, I'm also willing to concede that negative feedback to any mod request purely because its not something I(or someone else) would use, is uncalled for.

I would also say though, that this community is on par, if not better than most, and these types of misunderstandings are few and far between, I hope, that when fliggerty's better combat is complete that it meets your needs(as well as my own, as it is something I too am looking forward to).

Best wishes,
Matilija

This is uncalled for Lestat, if you read further into the thread, you will realize that the OP is asking for a more "realistic" experience, not an easier one. Please people, respect the person behind the computer when you post, I realize that the internet gives anonymity, but using proper ettiquete will earn you more respect in return.

You know, I normally wouldn't comment on something like this and revive a clearly counterproductive controversy, but I stumbled across this while searching for another particular post, and read it through, was pretty shocked, and thought it worthwhile to address something.

Having read the entire thread, I feel, pretty strongly, that a number of community members -- and one particularly -- behaved atrociously, and irresponsibly, in a way deserving of considerable contempt. And all this despite the OP and another community member repeatedly making clear the actual intent of the thread. And the neutral party here who took the role of moderator spent more time and effort castigating the OP for his final exasperated angry reply to the clear provocation (which actually was remarkably restrained and communicative, as opposed to simply being an angry nasty rant) than he did addressing *much* nastier behavior from others. In fact, his addressing of their behavior more excused it and minimized it, while asserting the impropriety of the OP's response. I don't mean anything harsh to you, neutral party (and do not count you as one of those who acted atrociously and in a way deserving of contempt, to be clear), but this was handled very, very badly IMO.

Aug. 8, 2009, was the last time gavitron22 was on. This incident drove an otherwise-decent community member away. How many others have been turned off and driven away by this sort of attitude? I am fairly on the fringes of things, but I care enough to say that you had better police your community a bit more tightly, and cut this sort of vindictive stuff down. There was no reason for this.


EDIT: Quick clarification. Also, to head off possible misinterpretation, "policing a community" in this sense does not mean controlling it tightly, but just people speaking up and making sure it is known that some kinds of conduct are not considered acceptable.

If you miss, you svck at it. Build your skill. Problem solved.

I should note that this may be helpful: http://www.readingcomprehensionconnection.com/.

wow i can't believe this thread...

first of all, when i find i thread that sounds interesting, i open its first page and read through it, even if it's 10 pages long. if the thread is a continuation of a previous thread and the opening post doesn't sum up what was discussed in the previous threads, i usually skim through the previous thread also. only after i've read all that has been said do i reply. and i never reply rudely. i may not have been active in this forum, but it's my standard behaviour in all forums. if i do get frustrated with someone discussing the topic, my tone does get sharp, but it can rarely be said that i came across as completely rude. we don't know each other, and are all completely anonymous, but please show some basic manners. otherwise, you are shaming yourself and making the whole community look bad.

Conclusion: nobody bothered reading the original topic properly. Also, the oblivion system is not "dumbed down" since marksman/weapon skill factored directly into damage; the aggregate effect is EXACTLY the same as Morrowind's system. It's really just a case of calculating expected value i.e. 50% chance of hitting every time, each shot doing 10 damage versus 100% chance of hitting every time, each shot doing 5 damage. In fact the latter solution is superior mathematically because percentages are fickle and do not represent their numerical worth until a large number of tries are triggered.

The 'reticule shaking' effect seems to be a much more realistic simulation, so if you wanna play with percentages then I think that is an adequate solution.

OP might be interested in an old mod for Morrowind called, simply, "Marksman" (by Intelligentsia). It does a lot to the whole marksmanship aspect of the game which the OP may or may not appreciate. Here's a short excerpt from the Read Me for it, "A significant change to longbow related combat: stopping and taking aim will improve your accuracy and damage, but on the other hand weak players cannot hold the bow taut without losing fatigue. There are many subtleties to this, and dedicated marksmen may need to widen their stat pool." Playing with crossbows is also modified pretty heavily (also explained in the Read Me). Lastly, this mod is very modular in nature and includes a few different .esp files for new arrow types that, used collectively, could be unbalancing in my personal opinion, but then again I point this mod out simply as one possible option.

Find the mod on PES: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=1067

Y'know, when the community complains about oblivion stealing modders and players away from Morrowind, you'd think they'd act a little nicer when a new person comes along. Even if he did want to turn it into Oblivion, it would have been more helpful to direct him to such mods rather than tell him it's his game, but that nevertheless, he's doing it wrong. All I can say is, I'm glad I found Oblivionesque Magicka by myself rather than asking the community.

Is that the same mod as Oblivion-Style Spellcasting (Fliggerty's mod)? I've been meaning to try that one... You like it, eh? I've been looking at the Oblivion-style UI mod too. Can't make up my mind about that one.

Whoopsie. Dragging things a little OT here...

Seconded.

Here's a http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1032302&hl=realistic+combat to the Realistic Combat mod by Casey Tucker.

It makes every weapon (including bows) hit 100% of the time and gives NPCs the same benefit. Plus it allows you to keep leveling up your skills normally much like Oblivion's system. I'm not sure if you didn't want the other weapons to work like that, but I haven't stumbled upon any that only work for marksman yet. Ever since I found this mod I never play without (And yes, I am a MW > OB kinda guy).

Just to be clear, and not to detract from valuable constructive discussion, but the actual subject matter (marksman mods) is kinda irrelevant to what the issue at hand has become at this point in this thread.

In fact, despite some thoughtful and helpful responses, meaningful discussion had been killed off by by page two of this thread, with the exception of a number of people who were responding helpfully. Unfortunately, despite good responses, the thread devolved into a few people doing what I can only guess was taking out their frustrations on this poor guy. If you look at the two quotes I point out in Post #29, you should notice that the excuse of honest or even reckless misunderstanding is no longer a reasonable interpretation. This was a deliberate misconstruing of the response, http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/picador.htm -- one might guess calculatedly -- to keep on attacking this poor kid.

(You really have to carefully cherry-pick to pull words out of someone's context in such a way as to precisely reverse his intended meaning -- that takes thought. Read it carefully and you will see what I mean.)

Listen, fellas, to put it more simply, if you feel it appropriate to attack or mock someone for a view you think is stupid, that's your own problem. But at least you'd better be damned sure that's what the person is actually saying. I mean, no one will come to your house and punish you, or even scold you. But you do stand to look like exactly the kind of jerk that many people despise, even if some are not perceptive enough to notice what's going on and instead chastise the poor kid posting for getting upset about it (!), saying, in effect, "yeah, but look at how your original post looks -- their response is understandable, but your response is out of line." No, it was not, and the reverse was true -- even if he was asking for an effective cheat, which he made clear he wasn't.

For those who kept on attacking him, this was kicking a weak guy when he's down. It's too late now, but, to put it mildly, you really needed to lay off. Get a punching bag or something, but don't take it out on poor svckers who ask poorly-worded questions whose clarifications you don't care to read.

I noticed that on my first reading too, Gluby.

Thanks for bringing this post up and bringing the behavior to the attention of the community. It at least lets those who check it out know who we need to take a little less seriously. A couple of names from earlier in this thread now have that branding in my mind.

To me, the bottom line is this: Modding and mod use is a personal choice. A person can do whatever they want to their own Morrowind installation. If they want to make it as much like Oblivion as possible, flatly cheat, or change every line of dialogue to jokes of questionable taste and ruin the main quest... that's their prerogative.

If they ask for help with the most ridiculous idea in the world, that still doesn't excuse openly hostile behavior. If you don't have something constructive to add, browse the thread, then browse your way right back to the thread listing without leaving a reply, and keep your disdain to yourself.

Edit: You know, I personally think this topic would be better served with its' own thread. A 'forum etiquette' / 'good behavior reminder' thread. I nominate you for that, Gluby, because you've shown an interest in the topic and that you can address the issue clearly and concisely.

Morrowind is more of a classic RPG than some seem to accept. Things come down to dice. Your (the player) skill doesn't count for poop, your game is focused on your character. Your characters skills and ability are what decides whether a blow will hit or miss, not whether you are aiming correctly or not. Same goes for lockpicking/probing/, blocking, marksman, alchemy - you name it; the chance of success depends on the characters skills.

One could easily see a resemblance to D&D and even TTG (such as Warhammer) were success or failure depends on dice rolls.

Don't like it? Go play Oblivion or any other (lame) Action RPG.

Please refer to post #31.

Not to single you out, Thangrim, as earlier replies from long ago were quite a bit more rude, but this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about.

1) If you'd read the whole thread you'd see that the OPs question has long since ceased to be the active topic of the thread, and

2) It's a moddable game. This is the mods section. If someone wants mods to make Morrowind more like Oblivion, do you really think it's your place to discourage them? Mod and let mod, I say.

Edit: Gluby beat me to it.

Combat in Morrowind:

Wow what a read. Well even though Glubby pretty well addressed the baiting going on I'd like to add to this discussion - hopefully without being seen as flaming.
I'd like to particularly address the idea that Morrowind is pure roleplaying while Oblivion is action based/fps type game.

To begin with no video game is a pure role playing game most in fact are very much about player skill. A pen and paper game is a pure role playing game. Where there really are dice and rules that are often pretty inflexible. I understand that in a sense the combat encounters are much like pen and paper but actually not as much as say Neverwinter nights 1 was. Not by far. In Morrowind a player can still attack or swing as often as they want so there seems to be no limit on the number of attacks in a round as is often the rule with RPGs. Bioware and NWN were much more about following RPG rules.

Next where is the idea of the invisible stats. I'm sorry but no matter how intelligent your character is - he or she is still no smarter than the player that plays them and none the wiser really. While these stats might play a part in the Morrowind game play they often seem to play less of a role that even some of what is possible in Oblivion. If your character is a genius level mage and he makes the wrong turn or gets beaten or just can't figure out how to solve a puzzle then how is that explained away? lack of player skill? Or was it a bad luck stat?
Even pen and paper involved player skill. Further look at the whole LARP thing they roleplay and work on their personal skills in combat as well.

While Oblivion combat is far far ahead of Morrowind it is far from perfect. You can pincushion an NPC and they will be running around with 15 arrows in their chest like nothing happened. Just as unimmersive as hitting a crab dead on and no damage as it is in Morrowind. This can be addressed in Oblivion though. After discovering Duke Patricks mods for Oblivion I've never looked back. Not only did these mods correct many of the faults but made the game challenging enough to play again and again - working hard to improve the characters skills (to draw a bow, to hit a target, to block well, to do more damage especially) and your own skills (to learn about timing, angling, use of shield in combination attacks, and to know when to run away). Duke Patrick's mods are not the only mods available for combat in Oblivion as well.

Modded combat in Oblivion, however, actually brings the issue to more the forefront - that combining video games and RPGs is going to be about combining character skill with player skill. Doubtful those that think that Oblivion is made easy would think the same with a properly modded version that makes combat deadly. In my game you would not survive two arrow shots that connected to your character until you are somewhere near level 10.

The problem is though that while the issues of Oblivion have been addressed rather well. The issues of Morrowind combat have not really addressed near as well. As with the above point about the number of attacks not being controlled like in NWN and the direction that Bethesda took in subsequent games indicates, to me anyway, that the limits of stat based combat was not so much a built in design as just a limit in what they were able to do with games that had medieval/primitive combat. They were shooting for more and attained more with Oblivion.

Graphically Morrowind has come a long way (amazing) and I've heard nothing but praise for the story and characterization and roleplay of Morrowind compared to Oblivion. I'm going to see if that is true. I've not really played Morrowind intensively and played NWN at the time instead. I got bored of watching my character in combat as if I had nothing to do with it other than choosing to use a spell instead of my best weapon. At this point (and I have tried Enhanced Combat too) Morrowind seems less fun in that you are still there swinging away with your weapon and often for naught. It is a visceral tease that you the player matter much. After getting a strong dose of modded oblivion it is a mighty challenge to gear down to pure stat based combat in Morrowind. I can feel the limit.

So again not trying to flame just adding to the discussion about what is hoped for in modded morrwind.

While I think a lot of people made bad choices in the use of their words during this thread, I want say that I think always hitting with a bow is a ridiculous approach to fixing what is essentially, as previously mentioned, an animation problem. Using a bow is really really hard. Fliggerty's crosshair approach would be awesome if connected to the marksman skill as well as other factors. That said, who can really tell someone the right way to mod their own game?

I can see why people get heated by this issue when they see others unable to suspend their disbelief in a game like Morrowind. Morrowind is the special game that it is both because of its wondrous strengths and its unique faults. People get upset when they see other people trying to turn the game they love into something that it is not. Still, the line between improving the game and changing it is a thin one that is ultimately created in the mind of each and every one of us within the community individually.

Don't need to do any modding for early good marksmanship, just include Conjuration in major skills, then buy the Bonded Bow spell in the Balmora Mages guild (it adds 10 points to Marks), use it until your natural skill get high enough. The problem is Magicka, but if you've got an Ancestor Ghost spell w/high Conjuration skill no problem ... but carry one bottle of Magicka just in case.

This won't give you 100% hits but your average should be bearable.

Best

This comes down to the question:

How to model agility in game?

I can't say I like the mechanics of agility in Morrowind. Yet, I am OK with it. It is a problem with new comers, not able to hit anything is frustrating even at start... I just killed a small flying insect with a giant hammer, it was quite an epic battle. It can hit me, but I miss and miss and miss.

On the other hand start with an Argonian, Bosmer, Khajit male(like I did in my recent char, was shocked at 85) and choose The lover as birthsign and favor agility as an attribute: 85 agility. I guess it would solve most of the hit&miss problems.

Maybe separating dodge and attack could work. There is something wrong about it, I can't put my finger on it yet. Increase attack and decrease dodge for balance without breaking the whole system.

Alright, I prefer Morrowind over Oblivion by miles but, are you kidding me? Combat in Morrowind is clunky and unresponsive. Oblivions greatest strength is its combat system which is waaaay more interesting than Morrowind's.

Anyways, there is some mod called "Useful Archery" or something along those line on PES. IT makes it slightly easier to hit a target and allows arrows to be retrieved every time you do hit. Should find a happy medium between the stinky marksman system and cheating.

Man, you sound like a jerk here; try and keep it positive please. Morrowind's marksman IS NOT REALISTIC. If you don't start with at least 20 or so marksman, it is nearly impossible to hit anything no matter how close you are. Not being able to hit anything means the only way to skill up is through paying trainers. I don't know if you ever used a bow in real life, but it is pretty freakin' easy to hit something 5 feet away.

PS:Sorry, didn't mean to double post