Could have dwemer invented rifles?

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 11:42 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=RqoCBWRErag
This skyrim mod made me thinking, could the dwemer lore wise happened to invent the rifels, i mean they were kind an age/centuary/something ahead of the rest of the races , and tes right now seems for me the be at the begining of middle age (empire hasent still fallen though but it is falling ) i mean the next great invention at the middle age was the rifle , could the dwemer invented that lore wise?
The big problem is the assumption that Tamrielic historical or technological timelines would follow a similar path to our own. After all, we invented the crossbow before going to space, so we're already different.

There doesn't seem to be any rifles or guns. The use of magic and enchantment meant that the only race who would have the ability or inclination to do so had no cause. So really, no point for them, no point for us.
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Joe Bonney
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 11:47 am

If they invented guns, why did they use crossbows for just about everything? Their siege weapons are giant crossbows. Their robots have crossbows for arms. They had regular crossbows in Morrowind.

So I'm gonna go ahead and say no. Their siege crossbow bolts in Skyrim do explode (probably using those satchel charges of theirs), but I don't see any kind of use of the satchel explosions to propel a bolt, just to make them explode on impact.
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Daniel Lozano
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 5:06 am

While I don't want guns, the argument that magic makes them useless doesn't really work. You might as well argue that they shouldn't use swords (which would be even more useless). Swords are just cooler in this setting.

It's all Rule of Cool.
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Hearts
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 5:34 am

While I don't want guns, the argument that magic makes them useless doesn't really work. You might as well argue that they shouldn't use swords (which would be even more useless). Swords are just cooler in this setting.

It's all Rule of Cool.
Swords already exist and require no inventing. Besides they DO look cool.
Guns on the other hand...what purpose does a gun have when magical staves can do the same thing with more variable uses?
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Albert Wesker
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 9:00 pm

Swords already exist and require no inventing. Besides they DO look cool.
Guns on the other hand...what purpose does a gun have when magical staves can do the same thing with more variable uses?

Then why don't armies just give everyone staves if they are so useful? Laugh as the Nordic armies don't even reach your front line. Guns could do that. Could staves?

Swords being remotely useful against magic = rule of cool, unless you have fancy sword magic like the Raga. Which is already rule of cool.
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ezra
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 10:51 am



Then why don't armies just give everyone staves if they are so useful? Laugh as the Nordic armies don't even reach your front line. Guns could do that. Could staves?

Swords being remotely useful against magic = rule of cool, unless you have fancy sword magic like the Raga. Which is already rule of cool.
So...1000 guys armed with fireball staves VS 1000 guys with ancient firearms? The fireball staves are basically literal hand held artillery. IF they did use them it would be very effective. For all we know they do use staves in battles. Not like we can honestly and accurately judge from within the game mechanics...

However there is an instance in the novels where
Spoiler
An entire Legion of Imperial soldiers are enchanted with levitation powers and fly out to fight the floating city of Umbriel. With that kind of prevalence of magic I honestly think they would or could use staves as the gun equivalent in their world.


So yeah, if they were available they would give them to all their armies but they don't(as far as we know) because it is likely difficult to make a large amount of staves. Same with guns unless they tchnologically or magically industrialized the process in which case they could start pumping out hordes of either one. In that case I still think the staves would be more effective. Obviously so. Summon a horde of Daedra or a storm of lightning bolts or charm an entire army into stupidity and oblivion.

Tbh most fantasy fiction doesn't make sense because we honestly just do not know how we would account for magic in a battle. It would be the ultimate weapon and tool.

Sorry about legibility or grammar if it's a problem. On a mobile device.
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Jonathan Egan
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 12:20 pm

I'm not saying guns > magic, I'm saying that guns would be more useful against magic than swords. As you said, magic can essentially be artillery.
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Alister Scott
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 4:34 am

I imagine they had flamethrowers, or more accurately steam-throwers. They may not use normal balistic technology, but gas superheated to hundreds of degrees would be used by them. They did implement it in the Steam Centurions as an attack, after all.
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bimsy
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 8:43 am

Could they? Sure. Did they? As of now, no. Building the Numidium and golemns were more important.
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Darlene Delk
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 7:03 am

Also,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx8FanC70S4
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El Goose
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 2:49 am

Then why don't armies just give everyone staves if they are so useful? Laugh as the Nordic armies don't even reach your front line. Guns could do that. Could staves?

Swords being remotely useful against magic = rule of cool, unless you have fancy sword magic like the Raga. Which is already rule of cool.
Money and politics. It costs a lot to obtain and ship the sorts of wood that enchant best, find and fill soul gems, then distribute staves. Also, I doubt the Mages Guild (double this for when there are two magic factions) want just anyone to use the hardcoe war magics.

Finally, on a practical level, it's a matter of charge. A soul gem takes up about as much space as an ammo clip, yes? Which means that an army of nonmages with staves would be used better as siege warfare than in field warfare. Having trained mages stationed with a small unit each is more how magic would work in war.
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Sheila Reyes
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 11:41 pm

Dwemer technology seem to be all clockwork or steam. Maybe a form of clockwork rifle if they ever did. If they did have the technology, I'm sure we would have seen it by now and they would have used it on many of their robot. I guessing crossbows will be their limit. Destruction magic pars with fire arms.

Gun powder will be the work of an alchemist. Who are the best alchemists of Tamriel?
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TRIsha FEnnesse
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 10:52 pm

However there is an instance in the novels where
Spoiler
An entire Legion of Imperial soldiers are enchanted with levitation powers and fly out to fight the floating city of Umbriel. With that kind of prevalence of magic I honestly think they would or could use staves as the gun equivalent in their world.

The idea of a flying army of mages with firebolts blew my mind.
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vicki kitterman
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 9:17 am

Why would you invent a rifle when you can point your finger and shoot a fireball? I mean, why go out of your way to invent something very elaborate and complicated that you could accomplish with one of the weakest magic spells?

I really don't even know why bows and arrows exist in TES.. probably just for the variety of weaponry. I suppose it might be easier for some to bend a stick and put some string on it than it would be to learn magic.. It definitely is not easier to forge a gun out of metal, fashion all of the moving parts, make a projectile, make something to power the projectile, and then mass produce it than it would be to just use magic.

Durp, almost totally forgot about staves. There's really no point in guns when ANYONE can pick up a stick and shoot fireballs out of it.
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Madeleine Rose Walsh
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 5:52 am

The idea of a flying army of mages with firebolts blew my mind.
Eat your heart out, Red Baron.

EDIT: And the question of how magic effects warfare is one of the reasons I like the crazy mananaut stuff.
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Gwen
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 12:52 am

Also, I doubt the Mages Guild (double this for when there are two magic factions) want just anyone to use the hardcoe war magics.

Wasn't the Mage's Guild founded on the basis that anybody should have the right to be taught and given access to magic? It was the Psijiics that wanted to keep magic to themselves.

EDIT: Presumably, bows exist because you can arc the shots and stuff. I imagine doing that with magic is much harder. It's also a lot stealthier to shoot an arrow/dart/bolt than to fire off a fireball. Also less chance of lighting the forest your using as cover on fire.
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Agnieszka Bak
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 8:59 pm

Wasn't the Mage's Guild founded on the basis that anybody should have the right to be taught and given access to magic? It was the Psijiics that wanted to keep magic to themselves.
Founded, sure. Acted thus? Well, maybe at first, but if you were an Emperor, and were therefore in charge of the guilds' charters, would you let just anyone learn how to dissolve a city in its own juices?
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Tamara Dost
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 1:48 am

Founded, sure. Acted thus? Well, maybe at first, but if you were an Emperor, and were therefore in charge of the guilds' charters, would you let just anyone learn how to dissolve a city in its own juices?

There's a reason I'm not an Emperor.
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Rob Davidson
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 1:38 am

There's a reason I'm not an Emperor.
Being born to average citizenry in a political climate not particularly favorable to empires run by divine mandate?
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Benji
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 12:32 am

I'm not Emperor because my clone's still alive.

There was a Tamriel clone wars. It was very, very confusing.
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lolly13
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 7:33 am

Founded, sure. Acted thus? Well, maybe at first, but if you were an Emperor, and were therefore in charge of the guilds' charters, would you let just anyone learn how to dissolve a city in its own juices?

Sure, if my citezens are willing to sink millions of septims and their entire lives into unlocking the secrets of the arcane, yes, I would let them learn how to dissolve a city in its own juices.

I would also let them spend a month or two learning how to cast a basic fire spell to cook food, keep warm at night, light spells and night-eye for those midnight travelers, and levitation is always fun to play around with is banned.
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Veronica Flores
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 10:53 pm

I would also let them spend a month or two learning how to cast a basic fire spell to cook food, keep warm at night, light spells and night-eye for those midnight travelers, and levitation is always fun to play around with is banned.
Levitation is a necessary thing to teach them. Population control man!! Also weeds out the dumb ones.
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Astargoth Rockin' Design
 
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