Eh? I'm talking from west after FO2 to east. Pretty sure they did not take planes.

And, I still highly doubt took planes in years after the war. Countless amounts of damage can be done.

I still doubt anyone made it from east to west. Pure luck if they did, and Eden could not possibly know. It impossible. He a computer, he didn't go with anyone who left, and frankly, people who did leave may not have been Enclave, and Eden may not have been Enclave, until Autumn Sr showed up.

Well the only navy I could see the Enclave ever having if they even did would be very early post war. I am thinking year 2078 - 2080, I could see this and could potentially use this as a way to put a off shoot self sufficent base on Hawaii. But that is just something I would do to flesh out the story a little more if I was to write a back story for the Enclave. I would not want them to survive much longer, their time has came and they went about obtaining what they wanted to do in wrong ways as well as their ideals were some what askewed. They should slowly be scattered to the winds and just have nothing left but remnants of their technologies and their "documents" and even their bunkers. I feel the same way for the BOS, I feel they should die out on the west coast from their isolationist ways while the eas coast BOS should start to thrive from being more open and willing to adjust their views to make themselves stronger.

On the Enclave, only way I could ever justify seeing the Enclave in large numbers or as a force is if we had a game taking place in one of the last strong holds of the Enclave in the central US. But I kind of dont expect this to happen. I think if we see Enclave it will be remnants like we saw in New Vegas.

I don't think they would really want a navy. But, a submarine...now that sounds like the Enclave. But how they could get their hands on that, I wouldn't know.

The only "Navy" I could see the Enclave having is a small "fleet" of tugboats needed for the Tanker and some smaller craft but after they docked the Tanker what use would tugboats be?

Well there was a good chinese one at Point Lookout, it was known since before the war and the Enclave would have had records of it. There was also that chinese sub that washed up in california after losing all power from the EMP blast during the war.

Ah, my mistake then.

Like I've said before, the Chicago outposts may have been used as a refueling depot.

There is also the possibility that the vertibirds were switched over to nuclear power at some point (either by retconn via Bethesda or by actual design), since they blow up with a mushroom cloud like other nuclear powered vehicles.

Most tugboats ive seen had watercannon attachments for use in fighting fires. Could serve useful on a oil rig if it were to catch fire. Then again maybe they had some better form of fire suppression in the FO universe.

Fire fighting makes sense, but still a "navy" of nothing but tugboats is nothing to write home about.

Well, if Enclave had a sub, it would not be Chinese. It would be American.

And the EMP is main reason why no planes taking people from east to west or vice versa. Most of that crap would not work. Even if you had a huge GI Joe base, which had a plane, protected, and you had a pilot, well that one base. A rare circumstance. But, you need a place to go, land, and you need to know it safe, otherwise no reason to do it. Why leave your base big enough to store a plane?

Hey Bob wanna risk your life, my life, and everyone elses life climbing into the plane and hope it safe and we find a safe place to land and not die? Sure Joe, sounds fun.

Will I rule it out? No, but I will say it is rare.

I assume this conversion made at RR.

I don't think Chicago is a refueling outpost because they went out of their way to go there.

Also, if altering verts to nuclear power....there is no reason for a refueling station anymore, so IF that is the function of Chicago, it is now obsolete. I like my Chicago idea much better. Pre-existing Enclave base.

I disagree.

http://www.futurescience.com/emp/vehicles.html



"Any statement concerning the effect of nuclear EMP on vehicles would depend upon details such as how your vehicle is oriented (in other words, which direction it is facing) with respect to the nuclear detonation. It would also depend upon the height of the detonation, the gamma ray output of the detonation, the distance and azimuth to the detonation, and the local strength of the Earth's magnetic field between your location and the detonation point."
----

"Those vehicles were tested up to the level that some sort of upset occurred, then further testing was stopped on that vehicle. In most cases, after the initial upset occurred, the vehicle could be restarted. In most of the remaining cases where the vehicle could not be immediately restarted, a latch-up had occurred in the electronics, and the battery could be momentarily disconnected to "re-boot" the electronics, and the vehicle could then be restarted. This temporary electronic latch-up failure mode caused by EMP is something that almost never occurs in automobiles during a typical lifetime of operation."

"Only one of the vehicles tested (a pickup) could not be restarted after some minor work, and it had to be towed to the shop for repairs."

From what I gleaned from a brief reading of the article, the jury is out on how much damage EMP actually does with relation to vehicles. So its quite a stretch to say that nothing would be available or would work, especially if the government planned ahead and properly shielded the vehicles.

No offense, but that article states: "the testing was very poorly done".

I recently saw a program on EMP and the range of EMP from a nuclear bomb was huge. Much greater than I had previously thought.

Also: disagree as much as you want, but in FO universe, the effects of the nuclear war were worse than expected, ie theorized, and in the FO universe EMP damage is evident, as in vehicles stopped...and did not restart. FONV Honest Hearts and the survivalist log is a good example, if you haven't noticed the rotting cars and planes.

So, FO world EMP= deadly.

I must have missed that little line. It does list other pieces of evidence besides the testing done by the United States however. Regardless, I just thought it was interesting information.

Agree to disagree I suppose. I still maintain the possibility of working planes that the government designated to be used for evacuation.

If any were to be working post-war, they would be in the hands of the Government.

Well like I said, I not rule it out. Just saying it would be rare. And the plane, IMO would have to be very well protected, and that means a good sized, well defended facility. So, why leave? There is some evidence of working vehicles, so some were protected either by being out of range or something else.

But I will also say this: there are a lot more car mechanics than plane mechanics.

So, from a is it possible standpoint, I will agree, in rare circumstance. Of course, I also believe in the possibility of other Enclave bases...soooo.

Nope it wouldnt be, but a fleet of tugboats with watercannons that could be adapted to be used as flamethrowers is more of a "navy" than what we would see. I mean lets see the only true naval warships was two chinese subs both of which were destoryed. The only other boat I know of is a wooden paddle wheel river boat.



Well, they probably would prefer american but they could always use the chinese subs and strip them and gut them and use just the hull as a basis to build an all enclave submarine.



I would have to say EMP damage would be hard to gauge. Its possible it could wipe out systems but we have evidence that high EMP will kill a car engine by disrupting the ignition system but after the EMP is gone the vehicle would start up again like nothing happened. I think the only vehicles that would have a higher chance of not restarting would be those with micro circuits and circuit boards which are more fragile than mechanical breaker-point style systems. For 1985 - 1995 cars, if you slide across the seat and build up a static charge and touch the computer case on the car the static charge would effectively destory the computer and require it to be replaced. The 1996 - 2012 cars are a little better now but theres still the chance that static discharge can wipe those computers out as well. Its just not as common as it was with the first generation of computers. Now on breakerpoint style systems, ive actually pumped more voltage and current through them than was designed and all it did was corrode and pitt the points a little machinists sand paper (2000+ grit) knock off the corrision and the pitts and the switching system works again.

Am I the only one who wants to see the Enclave play the good guys and the Brotherhood of Steel play the bad guys? Maybe in Fallout 4. something along the lines of crazy mid western BoS.

I wouldn't mind seeing Enclave remnants doing good, but I wouldn't want the Enclave to comeback as a major player even as "the good guys." As for the Brotherhood being "the bad guys" yeah I am all for that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ZcpcO7C58

Well this thread seems to have nowhere.

Let's cheer things up and listen to Sergeant Dornan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjSnjKheGHg

Enclave does not mean all pre war US forces.... XD The Enclave was just a elite selection of the top level of the US goverment and industrial complex. They escaped to a secret base and manaaged to keep there prewar knowledge and power thanks to the Oil Rig's special facilities.

A better description would be shadow government. They were hidden within the government comprised of the elite few. They would have access to all the information that the regular government had but they had a secret agenda which they used their power to fulfill. The vault program is one of the Enclave`s agenda`s that they got working through "legal" channels.

Vajan, you are the best person on the fallout forums, no lie

Perhaps the small outpost in Chicago trying to uplift the evil-mid western brotherhood of steel empire.

Tech may remain but there is very few enclave left..... They have all but been wiped from existence....

yes


its starts to be close to the type of bad guy′s in batman and similar cartons, no mater what the hero do whit them they are always back the next day...