Dialogue with the Lonesome Drifter suggests that there are numerous coal mines in Montana.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ej4j_ilAZU8#t=45s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ej4j_ilAZU8#t=18s

So what the hell is going on in Montana? Coal mines aren't something that an individual township would likely have; I mean what use would they really have for them? Coal can be used industrially, and it burns hot enough to use to smelt metals. I don't see small communities forging iron weapons, and I also doubt that they would have any large factories (or the labor force to run one). So then I thought, "well maybe there's a city like the Pitt -- a large industrial city led by an rising power/faction." But... I don't know what city in Montana would really fit the bill. Pittsburgh is a major industrial city, a city that is full of factories and that has an economy based in heavy industry. Montana's largest city is Billings, which has a few coal plants, but nothing really significant. It isn't really a huge city either, with a population (today) of only 100,000 people, and I doubt it grew much when it became part of a larger commonwealth.

So if it isn't a thriving city that needs the coal, then what is it? I would say a nation, like the NCR, that is in the beginning to industrialize. That's pretty significant when you consider that this "nation" is definitely not the NCR or the Legion, since their territories aren't anywhere near Montana.

So, am I just missing something obvious or is this actually something significant?

Maybe it's for warmth. That's what it was used for during the 1800's. And I could imagine some people wold need to melt metals for smithing, not everything has too be made in massive factories. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cf/MWP_Kubus_3.JPG/200px-MWP_Kubus_3.JPG. That was made by the Polish resistance in 13 days in the back of an auto-repair shop, and it was fully functuning, not to mention the astonishly high quality guns and flamethrowers that were thrown together.

My point is that the coal doesn't have to mean a new developting nation.

Europeans were burning coal thousands of years before the start of the Industrial Revolution. It was used for heating homes, cooking, small scale smelting and forging of metals, and production of lime (used in mortar and plaster). Use of it really started to increase after about 1000 AD or so, and of course really large scale use of coal didn't start until the Industrial Revolution. One of the earliest known air pollution laws dates to 13th Century England, and it banned the burning of "sea coal" (a particularly "dirty" type of coal) when certain types of weather conditions prevailed.

I could easily see a Fallout-type civilization using some amount of coal (especially in Montana during the winter) if it was available, and it seems natural that the people would start working the old pre-war mines to obtain it, as that coal would be most easily accessible to them.

All depends on how you interpret it to be honest. I mean I can see a lot of the areas in and around Montana turning out like The Pitt, or any other mining state for that matter. Coal would be, I imagine, a comoddity in the wastes, much like ingots where in the Pitt.

However, if we're talking about pure industrialization, I'd imagine the only use many towns in that state would have would be for mining, and slaving. I mean yeah we'd get the occassional settlement here and there that would follow a set of laws/rules/regulations/what-have-you, but I'd imagine (as I stated previously) that it'd be a lot like The Pitt; not in the sense of industrialization, but in the sense of being run by slavers.

I understand what you're saying, and it could very well be the case, but the way that the Drifter words it is what made me start this thread in the first place.

He says, "I worked the coal mines." This suggests a multitude of mines all in need of a labor force. It also suggests that he moved between coal mines, which shows that a migrant labor force might exist around these coal mines. The fact that he was providing for his mother shows that the two likely had a set home, so these mines would have to be fairly close together in order for him to work multiple mines while still living with his mother. I don't think this constitutes a small time operation for winter heating, but more of a large scale industry powering a larger society or nation. Wild speculation? Probably, but it makes sense to some degree.

You also have to consider....

Areas like Montana, Wyoming, the Dakotas, Utah, New Mexico, Oklahoma....the middle of flippin' nowhere states may very well be better off today, since they were less attractive bombing targets during the Great War. Could very well be that there's nations arising within them that are equally as advanced as the NCR, lacking people but having plenty of resources thanks to a cleaner environment.

But it's really only one line of dialog. Too little to say, really.

One other possibility - they may have been exporting the coal to the NCR. We don't know exactly where the NCR's northeastern border is, but we do know that they're an industrial civilization. Even if their borders don't extend to Montana, I can see them making an arrangement with the locals of Montana for coal.

That's certainly something to consider as well. And while it is just one line, it's interesting that they even included it at all. Could it be a hint for a future game?



That could be, I suppose, but Montana is pretty far from California, http://www.yourchildlearns.com/images/map-of-united-states.gif For the NCR to control territory that far to the east, or to even send scouts that far northeast, seems pretty unlikely.

I'm not sure, but don't the NCR's northern borders extend beyond modern California into Oregon? But yeah, I suppose it's still a stretch.

It's definitely plausable, even more so than the San Fran craze that's still going on.

Seriously, how is that going on instead of people speculating about Montana?

Well, another way to look at it is also...

Dialog implies the Courier has been there. And to Utah.
What kind of areas need Couriers? Developed ones with an economy.
So yeah, really not a longshot that Montana actually has a community or nation within it that trades to an extent.

I like the ideas here they really do make a good point but going a bit out there with the coal thing how would they move it? old coal train maybe? Would be good to have for trades and a way to get people from place to place.