So, we just passed the 10th anniversary since Morrowind was released, and we have had two games since then. However, with the way each games has fed the story of the next, t is clear that Bethesda are not flying blind with the story and lore. However, with Skyrim we seem to be entering 'new' waters. I was thinking upon what Wulf said in Morrowind, shortly before going to face Dagoth Ur. He talked as a man living out his last days, rather than an ever present deity.

This has probobly been posted a thousand times. However, perhaps not since Skyrim has been released and we have been given more story to mull over and revelations. I coudl be wrong however, if I am just point e tot eh thread and i'll read it. For now...

"What a piece of luck! Look. I'm an old Legion veteran, as old as the poor old Emperor, bless his soul. I'm too old for campaigning. I came this far to look at hell. But I can't go any farther than this. I'd take it kindly if you'd carry this old lucky coin with you when you go to Dagoth Ur. Sort of a token of the tough young hero I used to be. Would you do that for an old man?"

I'll take your old lucky coin to Dagoth Ur with me.

"That's very kind of you. Here's the coin. I've had it with me a long time, and it's always brought me luck. But I have no more use for it, and I'd like to pass it on to somebody younger. Somebody going places I can't go anymore. Your generation's shaper of history... an engine of destiny. That coin will bring you luck on the mountain. I promise. 'For Emperor and Empire,' as we say in the legions. Go with Kynareth."


However, then we get to the interesting bit...


:poor old Emperor:
"The Emperor is getting old. Don't know how much longer he'll hang on. So is the whole Empire, for that matter. Getting old, that is. The Emperor and the legions have held the Empire together for hundreds of years. It's been a good thing, by and large. But maybe it's time for a change. Time for something young and new. What? No idea. Because I'm old. Old dog doesn't get new ideas. But maybe young folks like you should try some new ideas. I don't know. Could be messy. But change is never pretty."


I personally took this to mean the events of Oblivion, but in hind sight the only part that really fits is the death of Uriel and the events wth Martin and the Amulet of Kings, and int he end that was more about the Septim Line and Akatosh rather than Talos himself.

Talos stayed the main figure for the Empire, and while it more or less crumbled, the Mede Dynasty built itself ont he corpse of the Septim Empire. You could argue that they are basically the same Empire or not (I personally consider it lesser and different, buts thats just me), but none the less an Empire remained in a form and worshipped Talos. I would call it different in ways, but not 'new' because it retained a lot of the old.

Until the events of the White Gold Concordat, the war, and Skyrim.

But maybe young folks like you should try some new ideas. I don't know. Could be messy. But change is never pretty.

I personally find what Wulf/Talos said more fitting for the events around the timeframe of Skyrim. I have my own thoughts, but they are mostly fragments and passing fancies, and i'd like to ask what the thoughs of others, new and old for contrast, are on the matter and ressurecting this old encounter? Old lore that was fulfilled in Oblivon? An hint for the coming Mede Empire? Of the future of the Stormcloaks? Dovahkiin? Something completely out of the left field, like Talos himself orcestrating his own 'demise' so that somethng 'new' can happen that those stuck in the old mindsets (in universe, and perhaps on forums like this aswell) won't see coming? Perhaps even a farewell of/to MK as he left his influence on the story behind to different hands.

Dominion.

Wulf meant the event of Oblivion Crisis it seems even today. It had little to do with who will be the next so called empire. The "change" in his words were a series of sequences leading to the malfunction of the White-Gold Tower, which was much more important than any other events during those years because it had shaken down the world formula put up by the Ayleid that had influnced how a Mundus would like to be thousands of years from the time the White-Gold had been erected.

I've always thought the Mede Empire lesser and different, because it's never been blessed by the Amulet of Kings, and never anchored in the "Wheel in the Wheel" of the White-Gold. Thus Mede Empire had never been the center pillar of Tamriel and the whole world, which role the Septim Empire had taken without doubt, plus Reman, long back to Alessia, and far longer back to the Ayleids.

Just think about the troublesome Second Era, and we can put Mede Dynasty into a similarity of those Tsaessi Lords, who were Potentates but never true Emperors, so the same are the Mede Emperors "fake". And I'd hoped Mede II is just like Savirien-Chorak, who was also assassinated though by the hands of Morag Tong, and his death announces a "Good Interregnum" ending, followed by a more chaotic time of war and blood. And it is interesting to see who will be the next Reman of Cyrodiil if White-Gold functions again, or other blessed if a new Wheel Tower is to be erected.

As for the Dominion, they are totally against the idea of Mundus, aka the idea of Lorkhan/Wulf. I don't think he would like this kind of change. It is similar to directly giving the Mundus a destruction, and giving Lorkhan's Love an ulter end. Lorkhan is not an being so easy to forfeit what was part of himself.

Just my opinion, Nihilee, but that doesn't quite ring true to my ears. He speaks plainly of the Empire as a whole, and of how he is getting old, and its time for a change. Of new thinsg. All that stuff is facinating in its own right, but I personally take that Wulf is talking of different matters here. New parts to an old machine are not a fresh start, and thats what i'd consider most of what you suggest, and a good decription of the Mede Empire as a whole. New parts, old machine. Also, note he has no idea what the change should be himself - let alone whether he will 'like' it.

The Uncertainty and Possibility of Sithis, and Lorkhan embrace it whole-heartly. Yeah it makes points. But still, what happened in Skyrim seems more a result from the Crisis, not the reason to bring changes on. What Wulf had said was more foundamental, so more likely to link to the course.

Septim Empire was the laboratory of Talos, a newer Lorkhan and his concept to stablize his Mundus as a whole, with the precondition of White-Gold Tower so that the Convention fully mantled that of the Ada-Mantia. The Tribunal did the similar on the Red Tower but the result was different. I think it's due to the difference between a Tower of Ruling and a Tower of Space, as Aka is always a ruler while Lorkhan is always not, and by that mean Red Tower is no more close to the Ada-Mantia than the White-Gold.

With the White-Gold malfunction, there's no longer a certain ruling throne, so the base of Talos's laboratory is weakened. See what the Thalmor keep doing: erase Talos so that erase the bond of Mundus. The White-Gold Concordat didn't get its name for no reason, or simply being signed under the White-Gold Tower. The Thalmor arising while Talos, his concept and being, and what was left to the Empire dissolving, and I don't buy it a coincidence.

In Skyrim we are still in the changing period, an Interregnum between the Talos Mundus and a future stablized Mundus. The Medes, also the Thalmor, are those acting and perishing in this Interregum. By this meaning, if what Wulf had said was not about the Oblivion Crisis, then what he said is still coming to see.