When can we meet Shor and Akatosh : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Fri May 04, 2012 12:05 pm

I don't think Martin ever tried to cut out the COC's heart. And Lorkhan didn't go around fetching things for Akatosh.

Only in the Convention did Akatosh cut Lorkhan's heart. Akatosh and Lorkhan had been existed far before the Convention occured.
Talos is the aspect of Lorkhan linking to the Convention. Martin Septim had no need to become a part of Talos, so COC didn't need to be cut.
Remember Aka and Lorkhan are the same et'Ada splitting his owm mind into two, who share the same "body" just as Time and Space cannot be parted: one concept cannot be existing without another. So if you ask me, every Akatosh/Auriel/other aspects of Aka needs his Shezarr/Shor/other aspects of Lorkhan in present when he comes into being, and vise versa.

» Fri May 04, 2012 3:49 pm

Wait a minute, Talos was NOT a dragonborn. He mantled Lorkhan because Tiber Septim was mortal Akatosh with Wulfharth the Shezarrine and Zurin Arctus a mortal Magnus and all three fullfilled their roles in convention, this active bore a full-meaning Talos (not just the name given to Tiber Septim) and by mantling the convention Talos mantled Lorkhan.That Hjalti in Tiber Septim, or we say Tiber Septim himself was a dragonborn, he acted as a ruler as Akatosh, either he mantled Akatosh as a Shezarrine, or he was just an Akatosh incarnate (Akatoshine? Aurieline? Akaine?), both were within the meaning of a dragonborn.

Yeah. And after reenacting Convention we don't know who walked out of the meat-grinder alive and who ended up into mantella, and what happened to third one. Why i referred to Dragonborn as Shor is that i see things so that there are three possible roles preserved for Dragonborn, as there is for Ulfric and Tullius as well. One is part of Shor, one is part of Akatosh and one is parts of Trinimac. What ever the role is, it's not supposed to be possible to knwo who got which part. Granted that in game nobody lost in duel at end of Civil War against Ulfric, so part of Shor never gets played as player. Loading from autosave made sure of that.

And now i make the basic mistake when i pretend to know what happened in Convention... Was it pre-convention Shor/Lorkhan who's heart got carved out, or was it pre-convention Trinimac who killed Shor and was it pre-convention Akatosh/Auriel who observed. Maybe it was Trinimac who got killed by Shor? Or Auriel? Is heart of Lorkhan actually heart of Auriel, or maybe the moons are flesh of Trinimac. If we take the idea of Convention into extremes.

...Maybe i'm product of my own dream...

» Fri May 04, 2012 3:47 pm

What does Trinimac have to do with any of this?

» Fri May 04, 2012 12:04 pm

Oh my goodness...Clarity is needed badly here

Martin Septim took the power of Akatosh to defeat Dagon. Martin was NOT Akatosh, he was Martin.

Talos was not an incarnation of Shor or Akatosh. Talos was a man gifted with the soul of a dragon by Akatosh. Dragonborn.

Characters like Wulfharth are Shezzarines, Avatars of Lorkhan or Shezzar. They are capable of bizarre things like Wulfharth being resurrected from ashes after he died at Red Mountain. Talos was not the same. Hjatl was man who ascended to become a god.

We did not play as Pelinal (Ada) in Kotn. We were the CoC who sought the crusaders artifacts to defeat Umaril. Pelinal and Morihaus are Ada, we were not.

Lorkhan has been acting in the world and helping Men to fight Mer for ages.

....now perhaps folks can get their facts straight

So Sheogorath isn't an Ada anymore because the CoC is him, then?

Yeah, Shor/Alduin/Magnus are three parts of one unit, therefore so are Wulfarth/Hjalti/Arctus. The Talos that came from those three is the one unit, only better and newer. Talos as we see him winds up fulfilling Lorkhan's functions and is therefore Lorkhan 2.0, and since the Dragonborn/Tullius/Ulfric are going through a similar 3-to-1 unit by my reconing, that means that the Dragonborn is Shor, only the sleeker new model. Or, well, he will be if he starts holding reality together.

» Fri May 04, 2012 6:20 am

What does Trinimac have to do with any of this?

He won Lorkhan in combat, cut the heart out from Lorkhan's chest and shot it to sky. I must admit that i tend to ignore the idea of 'Magnus being one of three' (instead of Trinimac), often without intention. But i don't know how roles actually are, maybe Trinimac is mere blunt instrument of Auriel's will. But then again isn't Dragonborn/Arctus as well?

I'm prone to believe it's Trinimac instead of Magnus, but i'm not very bright fellow. And i admit there's one flaw in this, Trinimac isn't like player. He isn't "Mythical Champion" (Ysmir, Pelinal, Arctus etc), he has more history, and rather [NUMINIT] one, beyond convention, while actual "Mythical Champions" often vanishes once their role is fulfilled... Then again Trinimac did vanish :cool:

or more like got digested.

» Fri May 04, 2012 6:16 pm

Want to meet Shor?

Look up.

You're welcome.

» Fri May 04, 2012 4:30 am

Oh my goodness...Clarity is needed badly here

Martin Septim took the power of Akatosh to defeat Dagon. Martin was NOT Akatosh, he was Martin.

Talos was not an incarnation of Shor or Akatosh. Talos was a man gifted with the soul of a dragon by Akatosh. Dragonborn.

Characters like Wulfharth are Shezzarines, Avatars of Lorkhan or Shezzar. They are capable of bizarre things like Wulfharth being resurrected from ashes after he died at Red Mountain. Talos was not the same. Hjatl was man who ascended to become a god.

We did not play as Pelinal (Ada) in Kotn. We were the CoC who sought the crusaders artifacts to defeat Umaril. Pelinal and Morihaus are Ada, we were not.

Lorkhan has been acting in the world and helping Men to fight Mer for ages.

....now perhaps folks can get their facts straight

Not quite.

Martin Septim mantled Aka and became his avatar, which is the same thing as being Akatosh.

Talos is 8 Shezzarines put together to hold up the world. Tiber Septim on the other hand was a dragonborn who mantled Shor, making him a Shezzarine. Talos is basically all the Shezzarines combined.

CoC mantled Sheogorath and Pelinal, making him a Daedric Prince and a Shezzarine by proxy.

Lorkhan only fights mer because they're anti-Mundus. But in the long run that still translates to helping men crush the damned elves.

Martin Septim was born with dragonblood, an incanation of Akatosh, so at last with the artifacts COC fetched he could finally become Akatosh, while COC by his deeds played the Lorkhan part-remember Aka and Lorkhan are two sides of one coin? Without another there is no one.

All Aedra gave parts of themselves to the mortal world, they ARE the mortal world. Akatosh is the TIME every single mortal uses to measure the sequence from their birth to death, and Lorkhan is the SPACE every single mortal bears in and departs from. Mortals speak through Kynareth, bond through Mara and attract to each other through Dibella. These are the Aedra. Lorkhan never hated the elves as elves are mortal, and Lorkhan loves his idea of mortal world and all mortals. Shor hated the elves. That is why we say Shor is an aspect of Lorkhan, a nordic-elves-hater aspect of Lorkhan. The same goes to Aka and Auriel, and that is why we can have Akatosh the human lover, a human aspect of Aka ripped most of the Auriel aspects off.

Every mortal is an Aedroth, just as every demora is a Daedroth. The difference between mortal Aedra and immortal Aedra like dragons is that mortals not only bond to TIME but also SPACE, while the Mundus is an idea from SPACE. Less Aka-bond introduces Arkay the circle, while those immortal Aedra has nothing to do with that circle, but these immortal Aedra are also too bonded with TIME that they change whenever a dragonbreak occurs.

Crap, got half ninja'd.

Finally, to make this post even longer. You meet Shor in Sovngarde, but he's to awesome to be seen by mortal eyes. Alduin is Akatosh; 'nuff said.

» Fri May 04, 2012 5:12 pm

You are Shor. Also, the moons are Shor. So you have met Shor. You've seen all of Akatosh's babies, and we saw an aspect of him in Oblivion.

As for not wanting to meet them; conversing directly with the creators of Mundus kind of makes them seem less God-ish.

» Fri May 04, 2012 9:21 am

I am the moons! I am new void arsenal! I am Leswyr! I am Sancre Tor!

» Fri May 04, 2012 5:04 am

I am the moons! I am new void arsenal! I am Leswyr! I am Sancre Tor!

CHIM or zero-sum?

» Fri May 04, 2012 5:53 pm

Neither. I am Shor!

» Fri May 04, 2012 1:08 pm

If you believe our local forum mischief (not in a snide way, for once), we've already met them or been them. Several times in-fact.

The Missing God (Shor, Lorkhan, Shezarr, Talos):

Arena:
The Staff of Chaos

Daggerfall:
The Mantella
Zurin Arctus

Morrowind:
Lorkhan's Heart
Wulfharth (Wulf)

Oblivion:
Amulet of Kings
Shezarrine (CoC)
Armor of Tiber Septim

Skyrim:
Dovahkiin (Ysmir)
Sheogorath (CoC)
Ulfric Stormcloak (as mantled aspect)

The Time God (Alduin, Auri-El, Akatosh, Tosh Raka):

Morrowind:
Almalexia (as mantled aspect)

Oblivion:
The Amulet of Kings
Martin Septim (as herald to an aspect)
Mankar Camoran
Jygallag (as pre-cohesive counterpart merging)

Skyrim:
Alduin (as shedded aspect)
General Tulius (as mantled aspect)
Paarthurnax (as shedded aspect)

» Fri May 04, 2012 7:16 am

The Reason Shor/Lorkhan din't appear in Sovngarde is becuase he is the Current DragonBorn the original Lorkhan/Shor is long dead gone hes the moons in the literal sense now. A big thing in Tes Lore is Mantling. For Example Tiber Septim to My knowlege is Talos and Lorkhan at the Same time but eventually a new Dragonborn will take over and be a Dragonborn Talos and Lorkhan its very confusing buts thats how it works , like Sheogorath gods know how many Sheogoraths there has been probally dozens. The last Sheogorath was most likely Arden Sul a hero like the Hero of Kvatch who mantled the third last sheogorath and then turned into Jyggalag and the hero of Kvatch mantled him eventually the hero of Kvatch may turn into Jyggalag and the cycle repeats.