I'm gonna lay out a very general and brief overview of Norse time for the purposes of this thread. Thus, we start with the Norns. The three big Norns we always hear about are Urer (that which has already come to pass), Vereandi (that which is becoming), and Skuld (that which should be/must be/is necessitated). What's important here is that Skuld is not the future, it is not predestination. You can take any moment in time and look at the objects and things and motion and make some basic assumptions on what is going to necessarily occur as the next few moments pass. The falling rock must hit the ground, it's velocity necessitates its impact. That's simply how things work. That is Skuld in the physical sense, and it works in that same way for the non-material. Another important concept is ?rl?g, which can be summed up as the options you have available to you in life based on your previous words and deeds and those of your ancestors and so on and so on. The etymology of ?rl?g breaks down into something like primal/fundamental law.

There is no pre-ordained fate in the Germanic conception of time, it doesn't contain a future as we think of it. There is only what has happened, what is happening, and what should happen according to previous events and the laws of physics. This is interesting because it changes the entire tone of a final battle against world-destroying forces that come to set in motion a new "kalpa" if you will. Ragnar?kkr is what should happen, what probably will happen, but nothing is certain. Skuld has been circumvented many times. Magic rendering warriors (or Baldur) impervious to the assault of weapons, the mythical sword Tyrfing's ability to cut through iron as if through butter, and so on and so on. These are all suspensions of Skuld. In the Norse sense of time it is possible to change fate, to circumvent what should be.

This got me to thinking about Alduin and how the Dragonborn defeats the world-eater, staving off the end of the current cycle for a time at least. Obviously Bethesda isn't incorporating Norse metaphysics into their mythos and games or whatever and it doesn't really jive with Kirkbride's messages from the future or any of that stuff but it's fun to parse some of the lore through this paradigm.

Basically you're saying that Norse gods are simply men capable of breaking Skuld.

That sounds familiar.

I really don't think that's true, or what she's saying. In fact the main cycle of Norse myths is all about gods resigning themselves to Skuld. Odin summons the Volva, learns everything that's going to go down, including his own death... and then he basically just goes along with the path laid out for him. The http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/poe/poe10.htm directly leads to Ragnorok... and contains multiple mentions of events in said battle, and is attended by several entities who know the future. The norse gods pretty much always gave into Skuld.

Although I think the correlation to Norse mythos is interesting and worth discussion. For instance, in (spoiler)

(spoiler spoiler spoiler)
Sovngarde
(/spoiler spoiler spoiler)

, or at least some in-game discussion about it, I seem to remember hearing the Nords talking about that they were preparing for the final battle, even amidst all that nice drinking. It's worth wondering what the "final battle" would be to the Nords if they're hell-bent on that Alduin will eventually eat the world anyways.

The Dawn Era. Again.

They intend to be battling in the dawn era? Battling what? Do we know that the Sovngarde really is a walk-about type deal? And if so, I don't know if "final" battle would be an appropriate term.

It's not confirmed, but it seems to be the most logical conclusion.

They'd probably be fighting either Alduin or Aldmeri gods, most likely the latter. No idea what happens to Alduin.

Since Alduin apparently isn't Auriel anymore.

Edit: Maybe. Or something else entirely. It depends on whether kalpas are the same or not.

I don't see it that way at all... Odin consulted Skuld and Mimir, then went on to do everything in his power to prevent what was coming. Why else would he and Freyja spend an eternity assembling an army of the best and brightest from among humanity, and then conditioning them for war if defeat was inevitable?

To understand Lokasenna, you have to understand the key players, namely Odin and Loki. It is plainly apparent throughout Germanic mythology that the reason Loki and Odin remain so close is because they are, in a sense, a match for one another. Odin views Loki with respect because Loki is the only one who can stand against him when it comes to wits. Although this rivalry becomes very unfriendly towards the end, we do not know that end, only the predicted conclusion. Wyrd and Orlog are fluid, and constantly in motion, and the end is never set-in-stone, that is a fundamental cornerstone of pre-christian Germanic thought. Nothing is pre-ordained. "Create your own fate, be your own savior" is pretty much the entire message of the old Germanic religion.

Drawing even more connections here, Tiber Septim/Talos is very much like Odin in a great many ways (So is Vehk for that matter). As Odin and Loki stand as equals, each seeking a way to at last better their rival, the same could be said of Alduin and Dovahkiin (or Talos, if you choose to follow the whole Dovahkiin=Talos school of thought.) Dovahkiin finds this way of changing fate by mastering the Thu'um, Using an Elder Scroll to essentially break time, and then ultimately turning Alduin's closest attendant against him. Although it is pretty much a given that Alduin is going to trash the place, twice he has been defeated by mortal ingenuity.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Lokasenna was written by a Christian monk some time after most of the Heathens had gone into hiding. Snorri's work is at best a look at Heathen mythology through a very devout Christian lens. A bit like trusting in-game characters as an authority on lore, tainted and distorted by personal preference and viewpoint... It is even speculated by some that the entire Lokasenna/Ragnarok myth was created as a way of subverting the old beliefs and introducing the idea that the Christian God was superior.

Coming at all of this from a Forn Seidr/Asatruar viewpoint, so take from it what you will.

To me, it seems obvious that that's no way to avert the final battle. Instead, it seems to be a simple attempt to make the best of it. To go down fighting, if you will.

Sure, but the Aesir and Vanir weren't defined by some special ability to avert fate. Humans took fate into their own hands every once in a while, and, ultimately, even if they were trying to avoid it, the gods do still end up at Ragnorok.

You know, I rather like that idea, but I'd identify Auri-El as Odin and Lorkhan as Loki. The good period in their relationship (adventures with Thor, the wall episode) was the lead up to convention. Baldur's death was the creation of mortality. Chaining him in Helheim was shooting his heart across the ocean.

I know that the Eddas were both written after the major powers of Scandanavia had all converted, but I thought the poetic one was written before Snorri was even born. Anyway, otherwise I agree with you.