Ok, I swear I could recall reading somewhere that the Khajiit were once Bosmer, that had been altered by Azura.

The Khajiit creation myth, of course, says the opposite, that Azura modified the Bosmer and made them into elves, rather than Khajiit, but that doesn't make much sense to me... seeing as how most Elvish races in Tamriel came before the other races.

Anyone have a source on the Bosmer to Khajiit theory or am I just remembering things wrong?

Neither of those are correct. It said Azura gifted some of Nirni's children with sentience. Forest folk. That doesn't mean they were Bosmer.

Khajiit was first came from the Aldmer (proto elves) and was form base on Azura for ummm, because they are toys to her.

Source from http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-varieties-faith-empire and http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-words-clan-mother-ahnissi-her-favored-daughter.

As for the Bosmer part/source/theory, that is the part where that there is a subspecie of Khajiit that are the Ohmes, which appear in the game Arena and the fact the border of Elsweyr and Valenwood keep changing due to how like both race are.

What is your source for "it said"?


Ok, but your second source essentially says that Bosmer were created from Khajiit.


I interpret that as meaning that Khajiit were what started it all, then after the deserts and forests were changed, the Bosmer were created from what was once the Khajiit.

Or did both races change at that time from Aldmer to Bosmer and Khajiit?

That would make more sense, and would explain my confusion. I was thinking "Elves -> Khajiit" but since Bosmer and Khajiit were so closely related I just thought it was Bosmer -> Khajiit like it was Chimer -> Dunmer.

It means that there were Aldmers all over the place. What the text was saying is that Y'ffre just change the Aldmers in the Forest into Bosmer and thus, not in the same "litter" or appears as the Khajiit that Azura change for itself.

Think I get it now. They were elves at one point, but not Bosmer, but the Bosmer were from the same race of elves.

That is a complete fabrication and insulting to all Khajjits, Khajiits and Argonians were on Tamriel long before Elves first appeared. The elven scouts of the new world (Tamriel) even noted seeing the beast folk along the rivers, watching them as they explored inland. Long Long before Bosmer's ever expanded into Valenwood in the Merthic Era. If anything Khajiit and Argonians are in the truest sense, Natives to Tamriel. But i suspect they probably immigrated long before elves did from Akavir where they seem to have to much in common with races from Akavir to be a conciedence. Snake people and tiger people? ....

Either way, The beastfolk had tribes as far west as valenwood and cyrodil when Elves arrived for the first time and were pushed back into Elswyr and the marshes by elven expansionism.

You should read "Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi" , it explains the origin of the Khajiiti.

Almost every creation myth of the races is partially false because its simply speculation, Same as humans speculate where we come from, divine or evolution? who knows. History can tell us quite a bit but not everything. I planned on making an colorized immigration map based on acutal historic facts and reports in the imperial library but have not gotten the time so i'll just give you some foot notes.

When Mer tribes immigrated to tamriel and they did immigrate from islands and lands to the west and southwest for whatever reason. They landed in Summerset and Valenwood and expanded NE, diffrent tribes with diffrent philsophies who couldn't live together set out to find their own new land as such, the Aeylids took the central land because of its placement and rivers, where the Dwemer and Chimer moved further NE into Morrowind. The Mer didn't arrive by some miracular miracle of unknown elven magic, they sailed here, landed and built their homes. In the process of doing so they forced the beastfolk who had already settled the land, and who were much less civililized, Khajiits and Argonians back to Elswyr and Black Marsh.

In the Merthic Era the Nedic people also came from the north and settled in Skyrim were they meet the Falmer, who were again also one of the Mer tribes, at first they were friendly but as more and more humans arrived more landed was needed and they ended up pushing the Falmer back in Skyrim in expansionism same as what happened to the beastfolk when elves arrived. Only the Mer did not nearly exteriminate their entire species in a bloody war.

The Ayelids took Nedic slaves as they tried to expand further south, which brought about the rebellion and overthrow of the Ayelid's by the Nedic and Nords and created the First Empire in Cyrdoil. The uprising freed the lands in high rock and hammerfall from elven rulership and the nedic's living there were free'd along with the crydolic nedic people. The ones in high rock choose to live in peace with Mer folk and gave birth to the Breton people. Later Yokdan (redguards) Immigrated from Yokunda and landed in Hammerfall making it their land as no one else really wanted it before that.

As you can see from simple Tamriel history, its full of rather mundane non magical immigrations and wars over lands and rights, not very different from our own history. Even some of the fueds and wars have a striking similuarity to our own conflicts, such as the Nords and the Falmer have an uncanny resemblence to American Settlers and Native Americans. The only history that can not be known is where the Khajiit and Argonian's actually came from, they were in Tamriel before recorded history which by all accounts makes them the native people, but I suspect like all the other races they also immigrated probably from Akavir during an even more ancient timeline to escape enslavement by dragons who apparently ruled over Akavir at one time. My theory on Khajiits and Argonians is purely skeptical but the facts for the rest of the races is recorded in the Impieral Library by Men and Mer.

Not every book you read in Elder Scrolls is absolute fact, Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi is a religious book and biased with no thought of discovering alternative possiblities. Is it wrong? I dont know, but there is alternatives that can be explored.
There is a whole list of books in Elder scrolls that condescend and counter eachother, and they mostly written in speculation by scholars and are not the voice of gods or devs saying this is what happened this is fact, thats part of the beauty of elder scrolls, the history is as much a mystery in some regards as our own.

There's a lot wrong in your statements, but I'll focus on the biggest thing:

Just because something is religious doesn't make it wrong. In Tamriel, religion (gods, miracles, etc.) is as real as science is to us. We can construct a fairly accurate narrative of what really happened during the creation of the world by comparing and contrasting the different cultural views of it. The origin of Khajiit and Bosmer from a common stalk of Ehlnofey is reinforced in many other texts, for instance. The scholarly texts that you claim are more factual than religion can be (and sometimes are) as wrong/bias/speculative as anything else.

It was documented by Mer exploreres, the first to explore Tamriel that the beastfolk where there long before any Mer civilization.

And I did say and I quote "Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi is a religious book and biased with no thought of discovering alternative possiblities. Is it wrong? I dont know, but there is alternatives that can be explored." I did not say it was absolutly wrong or right. I said there is alternatives, but it is based on a religious view that could hold some truth in their creation from a divine being's involvement, but i dispute the claims they are derived from a Mer species. They are listed as beastfolk. not Mer. Orcs were created from Mer and are thus listed as Mer by Elder Scrolls. Simple fact is Argonians and Khajiit are not Mer or have any common ground with Mer.

The simplist answer is almost always the wrong one with so many deadric and aedra powers messing with stuff. The simple fact of recorded history, Beastfolk where in Elswyr long before Bosmer's existsed in Valenwood and Bosmer's arrived with the other Mer immigrations.
And that is documented by Mer scholars. Now if their was deadric or aedra intervention afterwards could be. But you shouldn't take stuff out of context just to argue a point that was never declared. I didn't say Khajiit religious views of their creation was wrong, I just said there is alternatives. You are arguing I said it was wrong..

If it was documented by Mer explorers, could you provide a source to their documentation?

I'd be interested in reading the sources that say something different than what "The Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi" has written.

But for now, I'll go off of Khajiit creation myths, since that's the only solid source that's been provided and that I personally could find.

I think his source is the 3rd Ed PGE, which doesn't conflict with the WoCMA, since the events of WoCMA appear to take place in the dawn, before the sundering of the continents and the life of Topal.

I think (key word: opinion) it's most likely that Khajiit did originally come from Akavir. The Po Tun are so similar it's kinda ridiculous to think they aren't related in some way or another. I seriously doubt they're elves. We'll find out eventually I guess. And, not to mention, Azura could have altered the Khajiit/Po Tun in some way back in Akavir as well.

I noticed that too. You were pretty explicit in saying you weren't labeling anything right or wrong.

I'm replying directly to this because this notion seems to be your base for disagreement.

The problem with your reasoning is your idea of 'mer immigrations' is only half the story. The mer did immigrate, but they were immigrating back.

"All mortal life started on the starry heart of Dawn's beauty, Tamriel."--Nu-Mantia Intercept, Letter 5

Beastfolk weren't anywhere before anybody, because everybody started out in the same place. They then diverged, and re-merged. The Clan Mother is addressing something what happened before they diverged. You're addressing what they saw when they came back, not what they saw the first time they were there.

The only sources we have about their origin has them as being descended from Ehlnofey. Notice that they range between house cats, jaguars, and catgirls. The Akaviri races are also presumably descended from the Ehlnofey (the Tsaesci for certain, the rest are conjecture), so the common link is there. There is no evidence for any connection between the Khajiit and Akavir, though.

Does it really matter? They all come from the same basic origin anyways right? Elhnofey. The Khajiits do have a Merish looking subspecies which imo supports the theory that they are descended from the Aldmer or whatever race became the Aldmer i f it was not the Ehlnofey. There is a shared ancestry between all the Tamrielic races somewhere down the line. The Khajiits could easily be a merrish race that became something else just like the humans that went to Yokuda became different from the Humans that went to Atmora. Redguards and Nords. The Akaviri are more likely a group from Tamriel that went there and never made the full return to Tamriel. They all could be Elhnofey that adapted separately or they could be variations of later descendants such as the Aldmer.

Or maybe they're mer that bred with cats. Figure it's at least as likely as them coming from Akavir.