And then Akatosh rewrites history as it happens and it was a dragon the whole time.

I wonder how many soap operas and horrible porm movies MK watched to come up with THAT story.......


(I suspect malt liquor and cheap cigarettes were involved as well, if not abusing tranquilizers on top of it all.)

This kind of reminds me of the Missionaria Protectiva in Frank Herbert's Dune. Let me explain for the unfortunate souls yet to read it:

The Bene Gesserit, in order to facilitate their mission to eugenically breed humans across the Universe, send a branch of their order, the Missionaria Protectiva, to spread myths and religious ideas relating to the Bene Gesserit on other planets in advance. These myths are referred to as the Panoplia Prophetica. They cast the Bene Gesserit in almost divine roles, so that when they arrive hundreds of years later after the myths have taken root, the natives ascribe an almost saintlike status to them, making their movements in the indigeonous society easier.

My point being: I doubt that's enough to constitute a "myth echo". Similarly, I don't think having your crush stolen by a rival is enough to constitute an enantiomorph. I'm quite sure that there are abundances of energy and mythical force involved. Talos, Zurin Arctus and Mannimarco had the Mantella, the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur had the Heart of Lorkhan, et cetera.

Here's what I think:

The Godhead Dreamer (whatever the hell it is) is dreaming. Anui-El and Sithis are characters in his dream, and they're dreaming too. Akatosh and Lorkhan are characters in their dreams, and their respective earthly avatars (Auri-El, Pelinal, et cetera) are their dream-selves in their dreams.

Akatosh and Lorkhan are dreaming the same dream, but from different points of view. Their dreams might differ in subtle aspects. If you can somehow manipulate their common dream, giving it an element that is common to both, that dream becomes "reality" on this level of existence.

This would probably require an energy input to produce a sizable spike on the electroencephalogram.

You'r point about the BG is well understood Astion. It seems specially prominent that the Bene Gesserit saw certain events on the same mythic spectrum as the people they were manipulating. Even Reverend Mother Mohiam looked to the tarot to understand what was happening when Paul imprisons her. That is, Paul echoing the tarot, or the tarot echoing Paul.

Eh, not quite. Myths in the Dune universe aren't as important as they are in the Elder Scrolls universe. To the plot, yes. To the universe, no.

In TES, myths are powerful, and an inherent part of the universe's physics. In Dune, myths are portrayed in a rather antagonistic light, and are important only as a social phenomenon. Lady Jessica viewed the Missonaria Protectiva cynically, knowing that it was a tool of insidious manipulation. Especially important is the myth of Muad'Dib, which is distinct from Paul-Muad'Dib himself and drives a universal jihad, despite his best efforts to prevent it.

I've also never thought of the tarot as "echoing" Paul, either. Rather, it was a weapon used by his enemies to strategically blind him by bestowing some prescience to the general population. Since prescient individuals are mutually blind, it obscured Paul's visions, resulting in the so-called "tarot fog". If anything, I view the tarot as Paul's prescience's antithesis.

True about Mohiam, though, but not the Bene Gesserit per se. Mohiam was a Truthsayer, and the Truthsayer drug bestows some measure of prescience.

But I'm getting too far from TES here.

The Fremen were completely immersed in alam al-mythal, and that's the importance. Obviously, myth has no power in real physics, but I wasn't getting at that. The point was, if something is important to the Fremen, it's going to be important to the Universe. They conquered the the Known Universe in pursuit of their myths. Seen in a Hegelian light, this makes more sense, well I think it does.

The Truthsayer drug's primary purpose was to test truth

Back to TES then.

Oh my goodness. Double post.

Better make use of it then... Why is Akatosh mad?

Well, you gotta admit. The guy was hung like a bull!

The Aedroth Aka, who goes by so many names as to perhaps already suggest what I'm about to commit to memospore, is completely insane. His mind broke when his "perch from Eternity allowed the day" - http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/sporedream.shtml

Sorry, I'm a little unmetaphorical today... what is that referring to? Dragon Break or the Dawn of reality?

The "end" of the Convention. When Lorkhan's heart was ripped out, and Auriel ascended to heaven. The point at which the Mundas became stabilized.

You're not far off:

[Akatosh] gathered the tangled skeins of Oblivion, and knit them fast with the bloody sinews of his Heart, and gave them to Alessia, saying '[...] This token shall be the Amulet of Kings.'

No. It's referring to neither.

It's a reference to when Auri-El was made by Anuiel to provide a shedule for all things or any of the various other metaphors for the birth of Akatosh.

His mind broke when his "perch from Eternity allowed the day" and we of all the Aurbis live on through its fragments, ensnared in the temporal writings and erasures of the acausal whim that he begat by saying "I AM". In the aetheric thunder of self-applause that followed (nay, rippled until convention, that is, amnesia)

The aetheric thunder of self-applause lasted until convention, which means that Akatosh said came into existence (I AM) long before the convention.

Lord Hyamentar, http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=702787#. (Post #12)

Now, as for the original question of "what are myth-echoes", I would describe them as follows:

"Myth echo" is TES jargon for a frequently used real world literary technique known as an "allusion", except in TES, intentional allusions gain actual power from what they are "alluding" to.

For example, Aslan the Lion has been said to be an allegorical Christ figure in C.S. Lewis' "Chronicles of Narnia" series, although no one said it outright. When Aslan was slain in the traitors stead by Jadis the White Queen, Aslan was resurrected awhile later due to his noble sacrifice. This was the allusion to Christ.

Now, if we were told ahead of time that Aslan was an allusion to Christ, we would not have worried about him being killed in the traitors stead, because those that know the story of Christ would set comfortably back and await his return. Eventually, Aslan states that he goes by a different name on Earth, which is now effectively stating that Aslan is no longer an allegory for Christ, but that he actually IS Christ, simply in another aspect.

The question then becomes, was Aslan Christ from the beginning, or did he become Christ through his actions?

Although I apologize for bringing non-TES stories into the picture, especially in that my example involves real-world religions, I must say I believe that we are making myth-echoes too hard of a concept than necessary.

In TES, being an allusion is the first step to becoming the thing originally alluded to.


Yours in the Scrolls,


___The Word Merchant of Julianos

AE ALTADOON

And the multiple Dragon Breaks didn't help the issue either.