I think they dropped the ball by cutting Athletics, Acrobatics, AND Speed - Together, the skills/attributes were stupid (You end up being a rockethorse that jumps over buildings, or something stupid like that) However, they needed to keep one and merge the others with it.

An acrobatics tree would have been fun with the new perk system:
Perks to increase Run Speed by 20/40/60/80%
Perks to increase Jump Height by 50/100/150%
Perk to reduce Stamina Cost of sprinting by 50%
Perk to allow attacking while jumping or falling
Perk to halve Falling Damage. (Why does this perk only work when wearing heavy armor?)

While Morrowind and Daggerfall are BY FAR my two favorite games of the series, you can't ignore Skyrim's popularity. It pisses me off to NO END that almost everyone talks about/plays Skyrim and most of them haven’t even played (or head of) another Elder Scrolls game. Maybe they heard of Oblivion, fewer heard of Morrowind and most played neither of them. I honestly don't know ANYONE besides close friends who I've talked to about Skyrim that knows diddly jack about the rest of the series. People I never dreamed of playing games like this are all talking about Skyrim. Like honestly, ask anyone who plays games at all, all ages and both sixes, and they have at least heard of Skyrim, and then ask them about Daggerfall. Don't give me that crap about "well Daggerfall is old". because ask those same people about Doom. I'm just saying you can't ignore its popularity, especially for the genre of game it is, they did something "right" they made the game for the masses, and not for the TES hardcoe fans. To do this, they had to dumb-down the game and stream-line it. It kind of reminds me of Call of Duty. I absolutely loved the first three games in the series, and I've played all the games in that franchise. Most people played MW2/MW3 and didn’t give a crap about the rest of the series and its World War roots.

I'll talk to people about Skyrim, and then start trying comparing it to Daggerfall and they don't even know what I'm talking about. It REALLY pisses me off how popular this game is because no one appreciates the rest of the series. All of that gorgeously orchestrated lore; yeah most people don’t give a crap. I know this mind sound stupid, but this whole thread reminded me of that.

Thanks, you have finally made me remember one of the reasons I dislike perks.

They are limiting.
If I want to run ridiculously fast I can boost my attribute ridiculously high. It is the same with strength. In Morrowind I always carried around a bunch of (randomly found) amulets that would boost my strength by a few points for 30 seconds. That way I could run around with 200+ strength to get as much loot as possible out of a dungeon. But that was its only practical use, though but it was still awesome.

Perks make that you cannot run ridiculously fast anymore but just at :shrug:180% speed.

Actually, I don't think there would be a perk for jump height - Skill governs Jump Height, Perks Govern move speed (Or Vice-versa). Then, it's no different from attributes or skills, which are capped at 100 anyway.

Then, if you want to move stupidly fast, or jump stupidly high, you can use "Fortify Jump" and "Fortify Speed" Potions and Enchantments.

Oh, get off your high horse. They'll come around.

I suppose I could if there would be such a spell effect in Skyrim. The jump effect was already gone in Oblivion and Skyrim does not have a way to fortify speed either, right?

Get off my high horse? I didn't start the series with the older games, I started with Morrowind. After I played it I freakin' cared. I cared about the lore, I cared about the developers, I cared about the effort. I went off and THEN played the games. That's how most of these forums are, are the hardcoe fans who care about the series as a whole. They don't dwell on one game. Granted there do seem to be a lot of people on here who think "if its not Morrowind its not good!", lol.

I have tried convice people that LOVE Skyrim to play Morrowind and it isn't that easy, so I doubt they will "come around". And Arena/Daggerfall yeahh right, its not even that easy for most people to play those games anymore.

Try talking to people who only played Skyrim about the Chimer and Orsimer and how they became what they are. I've had these types of conversations with people, they don't care.

You don't need magic effects - You just need an Acrobatics skill that can be fortified as needed through potions and enchantments, like how you can fortify Speechcraft and Barter, despite them being the same skill.

Then I hope they implement that again in TES VI. Or perks will remain limiting.

The removal of acrobatics has nothing to do with the effectiveness of perks themselves.

It's as shallow as an RPG can get with still being technically in the genre. Terrible decisions. They get away with it because of all the really devoted fan and apologists. They're actually slowly but surely killing this series.

Perks make your speed finite.
Perks make your jumping height finite.
and so on.

Unless we get spell effects to fortify these things in TES VI stuff like that will always be finite as long as they use perks.

Perks make your speed finite.
Perks make your jumping height finite.
and so on.

And yet Potion and Enchanting effects still Fortify the "Primary Perk" aspects of the skills, instead of just the skills themselves. Like the "Fortify Barter" and "Fortify Speech" effects.

If a "Fortify Destruction" potion enhances the damage Destruction Spells do (Which they do), and you can forify both Bartering and Speechcraft, then there's no reason that, with an Acrobatics Skill, they need a "Jump" effect or actual spell that increases speed to be able to increase speed and jump height.

There are absolutely NO skills and very few Perks that cannot be replicated/replaced at the alchemy table or enchanting altar. The perks that cannot be replicated are generally "unlocked features" anyway. There's no reason that Acrobatics would be treated differently if it were implemented

Looking back at Daggerfall and Morrowind it's clear the glory days of this franchise are long gone. Oblivion is by far a better game as well. So many missteps with Skyrim it's truly a shame. So much cut. So much streamlined. Cornerstones of this series gutted probably forever. What happened Bethesda? Why did you go this route? The casuals are the focus now unfortunately.

Ahh yes the old, if i PERSONALLY don't like it, that means its rubbish/dumbed down/sellingout/for the masses argument *rolls eyes* . There are no 'facts' involved in this as its entirely a personal taste opinion and nothing else.

No 1 genre of gaming style is superior to another, period. Its entirely subjective, and there's nothing inherently wrong with blending different elements from different styles either.

It's entirely possible and respectable to prefer My Pet Goat to Shakespeare. But that doesn't mean you can't do an objective comparison of their features. "That's just like, your opinion man" doesn't cut it in everything.

The old days are over. Adapt or die.

The old days are over. Adapt or die.

Shakespeare's works are overrated and crass. They succeeded because they were popular, and people looking back said "Well, since it's popular, it MUST be good!" - Hopefully, people will not apply that standard to Stephanie Meyer.

Besides, everyone knows that, objectively, the Half-Life: Full Life Consequences series is the best piece of literature in the English Language.

"Well, since it's popular, it MUST be good!"

You mean like Skyrim?

To all the people who wanted Athletics and Acrobatics this time around... they could be quite game breaking. I remember in Oblivion when I could bunny hop over an enemy and he couldn't touch me as my Storm Atronarchs smashed them apart as I continued to do that. They are in the end not worth it compared to the other skills and what not. Not only that, but Bethesda's edition of Enchanting and Smithing skills is quite nice, and adds a new facet to the game, where as Athletics and Acrobatics were running and jumping respectively.

Or just create multiple alts and moan a whole load on the software makers forum thinking this will somehow magically affect some change that will override 10 million+ sales and popularity (because lets face it, people liking something you made is like, a really bad thing). Sadly this happens on all kinds of forums, especially genre specific music forums.

@Kahryl I never realised your pet goat and shakespeare were different genres of the same thing?. Interesting, I'd very much like to read the written works of your pet goat now